Why did they take out zone hitting?

[bakesalee]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I am talking about hitting. I was just saying that when I pitch, it's too easy for my opponent to hit with the hitting system that I'm complaining about.

[baa7]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I am talking about hitting. I was just saying that when I pitch, it's too easy for my opponent to hit with the hitting system that I'm complaining about.

Went back and re-read your first post, and I see what you're saying now.

[Pared]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Isn't what Yankee asking for exactly how MVP Baseball portrayed hitting? You could aim up or down but the bat still made contact, just better or worse depending upon your input.

I really liked MVP's model of hitting so I don't think it's all that bad. In theory it sounds terrible but the more I think about it, we've already played this type of system and really enjoyed it.

[Blzer]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Isn't what Yankee asking for exactly how MVP Baseball portrayed hitting? You could aim up or down but the bat still made contact, just better or worse depending upon your input.

I really liked MVP's model of hitting so I don't think it's all that bad. In theory it sounds terrible but the more I think about it, we've already played this type of system and really enjoyed it.

Okay, here's the thing... I really don't mind influencing how I pull/push the ball, as long as their system recognizes that pulling an outside pitch should not be the same result as pulling an inside pitch. However, I do mind influencing the fly ball/ground ball thing, especially if you or others are saying that best contact is made when you "hit it where it's pitched."

In this regard, are you implying that I should try and hit a ground ball with every low pitch and a fly ball with every high pitch? Because I certainly know of plenty of guys that can launch low pitches into the air, even for home runs. I just don't know about the fly ball/ground ball influence, that's all.

[Pared]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

I don't know how MVP did it "under the hood" but you certainly could lift a ball low in the zone or chop a high pitch down into the ground.

Like I said, if we look to their hitting system it took all this into account.

[brendanrfoley]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

What I enjoyed about MVP's system is that you could hit low pitches out of the park, if the swing was timed correctly.

The best way to loft a low pitch (in real life) is to make sure the sweet spot of the bat makes contact on its upswing. Which means, in order to loft a pitch at the knees, a hitter must pull the tirgger in time to get the head of the bat through the zone. A late swing can result in anything from a foul ball, to a texas leaguer down the third base line. But it's nearly impossible to loft a low pitch with a late swing.

This is exactly how MVP worked. And it worked well, in my opinion. I loved MVP's hitting system and would be thrilled if it made a "return" of sorts in 2K8.

[El_MaYiMbE]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

What I enjoyed about MVP's system is that you could hit low pitches out of the park, if the swing was timed correctly.

The best way to loft a low pitch (in real life) is to make sure the sweet spot of the bat makes contact on its upswing. Which means, in order to loft a pitch at the knees, a hitter must pull the tirgger in time to get the head of the bat through the zone. A late swing can result in anything from a foul ball, to a texas leaguer down the third base line. But it's nearly impossible to loft a low pitch with a late swing.

This is exactly how MVP worked. And it worked well, in my opinion. I loved MVP's hitting system and would be thrilled if it made a "return" of sorts in 2K8.

I loved MVP's hitting system as well, it was simple to the point that it was routine as it is for MLB hitters to hit a baseball but still took concentration...u had to know where the ball was going to be located....and go wit the pitch (pull inside pitches, hit the ball other way when it was outside, not try to hit low balls in the air, etc.)....i think it should make a comeback as well...

[bsb13]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Yeah, MVP's hitting system was no where near as easy and simplistic as a lot of people try and make it sound. Especially if you played on the MVP level.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Yeah, MVP's hitting system was no where near as easy and simplistic as a lot of people try and make it sound. Especially if you played on the MVP level.

So just to confirm with the MVP 05 system( It's been quite a while since I sold my Xbox and was able to play the game).

I know if you pressed inside on and outside pitch (or vice versa) you would take a very ugly swing. But could you press up and in on and down and in pitch (in hopes of lifting the ball) and still make contact or did you press down and in letting the game determine whether the ball went in the air or not?

When I think back to playing the game, I would always try to sit on a down and in fastball with lefty's and try to jack it. I just can't remember if I was pressing down and in (to the right) on my controller or up and in (to the right).

Can someone clarfiy this please?

[CMH]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Isn't what Yankee asking for exactly how MVP Baseball portrayed hitting? You could aim up or down but the bat still made contact, just better or worse depending upon your input.

I really liked MVP's model of hitting so I don't think it's all that bad. In theory it sounds terrible but the more I think about it, we've already played this type of system and really enjoyed it.

I think it did a good job but I still have a problem with the flyball/groundball influence - much like Blzer does.

If that is removed then the system in my opinion is nearly perfect. Keep it in there and you'll still have people sitting fastball up and in by pressing up and in and jacking homeruns with power hitters.

I liked MVP's system because it did what people want with zone hitting - if you pressed away on the joystick on an inside pitch you were swinging outside of the plate on an inside pitch. In a 100% timing system this isn't possible and that's wrong. I agree with that.

However, I also liked that it still kept close to how I feel about MLB hitters. If I make the mistake of trying to drive an inside pitch outside I still could make contact but the contact was terrible.

In many ways, there was a reward for playing as a MLB player but also a reward for knowing that the User's input directly affected the swing of the player. I think that would make both parties happy.

That being said, the reason why I asked for what you described as a 360 degree swinging mechanism is because I think it'll take that idea and push it to the nth level. Now, it's not just outside/inside, up/down. It's also slightly outside/slightly inside, slightly outside/slightly up, and so on. So if I pushed extreme outside on an inside pitch then I'm going to miss the pitch completely.

If I pushed slightly to the right on an inside pitch now I'm looking at a pitch that's probably going to jam me.

Someone brought up the cutter situation. Imagine swinging at it like it's a fastball and then trying to adjust by swinging in at the last second. Your input could directly affect how far inside you try to take your swing.

That's what I think of hitting. I understand when people mention bat location. It exists. I just don't agree that it's as drastic as swinging way outside on an inside pitch. It's more a matter of inches and minute adjustments during a pitch. Well, that's my opinion at least.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

That's what I think of hitting. I understand when people mention bat location. It exists. I just don't agree that it's as drastic as swinging way outside on an inside pitch. It's more a matter of inches and minute adjustments during a pitch. Well, that's my opinion at least.

Seems they could just come up with a (very) forgiving Zone system.
Inside
Outside
Middle

High
Low
Middle

Timing the pitch right would almost always guarantee contact unless you completely pressed in the opposite direction of a pitch. If you press down and in on a pitch up and away, you don't derseve to hit the ball and therefore, you miss.

If the pitch is exactly outside and you press down and outside, you'll get under it and hit the ball in the air. The further you are off, the more you get under the ball (but still it would be very forgiving so that you would have to be drasitcally under the ball to hit it straight up).

If the pitch is away and you don't press away (basically swinging towards the middle), you hit it towards the end of the bat (reducing the quatlity of contact). If you press slightly inside, you go further up the end of the bat and if you press all the way inside, you swing and miss.

I think most fear that this would result in a cursor type system in which you have to be very exact. But I think it should be the opposite. Unless you're completely incapable of recognizing the general location of a pitch, you would be able to be successful at making contact. Solid contact wouldn't be guranteed, but lets face it-most hitters don't make solid contact every at bat. Most out's aren't lasers that happen to find the gloves of outfielders. They are usually routine grounder, lazy flyballs, etc.

You easily define good hitters from bad ones by adding more foregivness. You would have to be more exact with Richie Sexson to make better contact that you would with Albert Pujols.

If you get really good, you can increase the difficulty, so you have to be more and more exact.

Maybe you start with a system in which you have your zone made up of 9 boxes:

123
456
789

and your contact area is roughly 70% of the size of that zone. For really bad hitters, it drops to 50% and for great hitters it goes up to 85 or 90%.

**Thinking about it in action, you could take a great contact hitter like David Ecksein and basically never aim your swing and make contact with most pitches in the zone (except for the extreme corners). You would have a lot of weak contact, but you could put bat to ball.

Now take a guy who strikes out a lot-you could only hit pitches that were somewhat centralized. In pitches on the outer thirds of the plate, you would at least have to have some motion toward the pitch.

[Pared]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Maybe you start with a system in which you have your zone made up of 9 boxes:

123
456
789

You just explained zone hitting as it was back in the day with High heat...

[StriderNo9]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

Not a testing issue. Just a game design choice.

Actually most testers have a good amount of say in some design choices, somethings mentioned in this thread would be best served if the testers pointed it out.

[Trevytrev11]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

You just explained zone hitting as it was back in the day with High heat...

The one game I never got a chance to play..wish I had.

[Blzer]

Re: Why did they take out zone hitting?

You just explained zone hitting as it was back in the day with High heat...

That's the only Zone hitting that I'm aware of. It was apparent in Interplay and Inside Pitch as well (maybe also SlugFest).