mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

[mkharsh33]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

I know I said I wouldn't do this, but two very small changes:

- user catcher arm strength raised to 30
- cpu ai catcher arm strength raised to 60

If you're happy just leave these alone, but I found that with my speed guys I could steal bases easily and want the challenge. also found I could never throw anyone out.

Also, have you guys ever picked anyone off base? In the zillion games I've played, it's never happened for me yet.

[BrianU]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Shogun to answer your question I've played about 200 games so far and like you I live and breathe pitching, I've never once turned the catcher suggestion on, I love calling my own pitches, wouldn't play the game if I couldn't. I've noticed that you're right a lot of the time pitches don't work well off each other the same way they do in real life, sometimes they do do sometimes they don't, I've tried like crazy to figure when they do and when they don't but even after playing 200 games I can't see a pattern it appears to me to be at random. Personally I play with the pitcher control at 35 because this problem is even more pronounced with the pitcher control at 0.

This is the only real weakness of the game, is that some moron who just throws random pitches in random spots has a better chance than someone who actually pitches properly. For example pitches like high 2 seam fastballs and high sliders work better than a fastball down and away right on the black even though any solid hitter will destroy high sliders and 2 seamers because they lose their bit if thrown high.

Basically I think of these pitches as "glitch pitches"(pitches that would never work in real life but kill in the game) and I never ever throw them. I play with contact and power at 80 and the pitcher control at 35 and basically just ignore the glitch pitche,s don't throw them and try to have fun pitching the right way. The pitcher control though is key because if you put it to low then your basically just randomizing your pitches and locations(which is basically just taking advantage of the glitch pitches). Basically if you enjoy real pitching than just pitch that way, try not to think or take advantage of the glitch pitches and have fun that's what I do and it allows you to pitch in a close to realistic way.

This is a great post! I sort of lost interest in the game for two reasons 1. my Mets have fallen off and baseball is tough to follow when your team has nothing to play for and 2. No matter how hard I made the sliders for USER pitching I found it too easy to dominate the CPU batters and get a strikeout if i really needed it. I realize now that I was using the glitch pitches as you describe mainly the fastball above the zone was my money pitch they swing and miss at that thing every time no matter who throws it.

I am starting to realize that every sports game CPU AI shares the same problem of being exploitable no matter how good the AI appears to be there will ALWAYS be a way to gain an advantage as the developers aren't as passionate as most of us I feel although I know they have limited time/resources I just wish they did better at plugging holes post-release.

The only way to create a challenge in sports games is to use 'House Rules' such as not hot routeing in madden, not using certain shots in NHL, exploiting trade logic in just about every game or your example of not using glitch pitches. I feel in the mood to pick up and play some baseball again and would appreciate if you could list all the glitch pitches/locations you are aware of and expand on this so I can use some house rules for myself.

P.S. I see you use 35 user control pitching so you can be precise and not accidently throw a glitch pitch. This is the one slider setting that I have trouble adjusting, I know mk likes using 0 and has explained how he changes speeds and the way he pitches but i find at 0 even if i throw a full circle great fastball it still could land in the complete opposite side of the zone and is unrealistic to me. But if I use 35 then the problem becomes I NEVER walk anyone its too easy to keep every pitch in the zone even with 70 rated pitchers. With the slider on 10 I never ever walk anyone either so it's between 0 and 5 for me as the two options, this is one area where I need to look at but I will say these sliders and mks rosters completely change the game this gameplay with TS's graphics would be heavenly

[wudl83]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Also, have you guys ever picked anyone off base? In the zillion games I've played, it's never happened for me yet.

Nope, never ever did I pick anyone off base.

I am seriously considering trying out "auto baserunning". This glitch where runners don't advance although you tell them makes me crazy.

[Herky]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

I've recently went back to this game and am having a blast with your rosters and sliders with some tweaks.

It's nice to actually see sliders work in a game isn't it?

[mkharsh33]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Nope, never ever did I pick anyone off base.

I am seriously considering trying out "auto baserunning". This glitch where runners don't advance although you tell them makes me crazy.

I'm thinking about doing the same. Had a situation with 1st and 3rd with one out and the stupid AI really messed me up - I had sent my guy on 3rd home but the override sent him back to base. So I'm with you on this - good call! Think I'm now good enough to handle my own baserunners.

[BustinLoose]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

I keep seeing how good some of you guys are doing with these sliders, but I'm having trouble scoring runs. The CPU always jumps out to the lead, and I can't get runners home in scoring position. I would like to see variations in the scores like 8-6 10-9 high scoring games, but all I seem to get are 2-0 or 3-1 or like my last game, I lost 1-0.

[BustinLoose]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Just finished playing the O's (me) vs Palehoes. Peavy vs Hammel. Peavy was pitching a no-no up until the 5th when I got my first hit, a double with Adam Jones, whom was left stranded at 2nd. They were beating the crap out of me 10-0 through 6 innings before I quit. They had 5 hrs and 13 hits. I can't understand why I can't get any hits vs the CPU, I'm patient at the plate, although I swing at the first pitch at times. I'm using these sliders because I heard they were very good. What is it I'm doing wrong? It almost seems like this game is scripted. Once you give up a hit, more seem to follow. I'm not experiencing these great games.

[mkharsh33]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

It's apparent these sliders aren't for you. Try the other sets here. I'm not sure where to begin, but not really sure it matters because of the issues you're facing. Remember: it's a game, and meant to be enjoyed. It's not the source of more stress in your life, so try a set that you really enjoy as it's clear these don't cut it for you.

[jbrown]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

I know I said I wouldn't do this, but two very small changes:

- user catcher arm strength raised to 30
- cpu ai catcher arm strength raised to 60

If you're happy just leave these alone, but I found that with my speed guys I could steal bases easily and want the challenge. also found I could never throw anyone out.

Also, have you guys ever picked anyone off base? In the zillion games I've played, it's never happened for me yet.

I have picked off 3 players in the zillion games I have played. I found that I used to hold the stick over when attempting a pick off but the one time that my thumb slipped off of the stick I picked the guy off. I started doing this and have picked off 2 more players. But that is 3 guys in the 3 or so months since that has happened.

Also, I have to say that these games with these sliders are producing totally random outputs and I LOVE IT. I finished my last 20 games of my first 162 game season with these to get a feel for them.

My first 6 games in my second season are crazy. I shut down the Tigers and swept them by only giving up 7 runs in the 3 game series. THEN I go and get swept out of Canada by the Blue Jays. I let up 34 runs on 51 hits in the 3 game series.

Time to get my players focused and tell them that they cannot see their girlfriends during away games.

[Cycloniac]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Haven't picked up 2k12, and I'm hungry for a baseball game (and I have a 360, so The Show isn't an option).

Maybe I'll pick it up for cheap and try these

[mkharsh33]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Said I wasn't going to do this, but still in search of that "perfect" slider set (I know...it's not possible, but it's close!!).

Some changes now posted on page 1. If you're happy and you know, just clap your hands and keep on playing. But if you want to try these, give them a shot.

- Pitcher fatigue now at 60. Since making this change, I LOVE it. The cpu AI will now manage their bullpen MUCH smarter. The game will still use the pitch count, BUT they won't let a guy suffer and die on the mound. This change has really brought the game to life from the managerial AI.

- NEW USER PITCHING CAMERA. I don't know about you guys, but I LOVE that camera angle on TV where it's directly behind the pitcher. This new camera angle now has that. It's really awesome to see what pitches do what.

- With that said, I've raised cpu batting power back up to 85. This will REALLY make you think like a pitcher. I played against the Texas Rangers last night because I wanted to see this against a lineup full of guys who can crush the ball. I gave up 2 HR's, but both were to be expected. It was my fault. You will also need to make sure you use your d-pad and check the outfield position pre-pitch. Might slow you down a bit, but well worth it. I found this new change to bring that fear factor back that I didn't have when the cpu batting power was at 80. This is now perfect...

- Raised the user pickoff success to 60. Doesn't really do much, but I did see some closer stuff with my attempts. I'm just not very good at this, I guess.

- Raised the user catcher throw strength to 30 and the cpu's up to 60. Face it, the cpu will allow you to get a HUGE lead, and only occasionally throw over, and rarely pitches out. You'll now think twice before attempting your steals. But I was able to get one with a 76 rated speed guy - I simply got my good lead, took off perfectly, and picked the perfect pitch count. Just like in real baseball.

Hope you like them!

[Braves Fan 21]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Brian to answer your question the pitches that I consider to be glitch pitches are any 2 seamer at the belt or above(AI swings and misses at this pitch like 80% of the time, I homer on this pitch at least 1 out of 3 times because it's a garbage pitch), sliders to opposite handed hitters also belt high or above on the middle part of the plate(again really easy pitch for real hitters to hit but AI swings and misses at least 70% of the time), sliders to same handed hitters belt high or higher over the heart of the plate, any type of belt high or higher change up in the strike zone(same comment as before), 12-6 curve right at the top of the strike zone, cutters belt high or higher in the strike zone and 4 seam fastball up in the zone and away(i've always felt that was the easiest pitch to hit other than fastball right down the middle), basically I consider all of these pitches to be glitch pitches because in real life they're all extremely low percentage pitches( if you add up every pitch thrown in MLB this year at least 33% of each of these pitches individually have gone for hits while in the game the AI's % is like 5 on these pitches which is a huge difference, also I'm like 50% on these pitches in the game so if I throw them a lot and take advantage of the AI I'll win every single game.)

You hit the nail on the head with your comments on Madden, NHL and trade logic(honestly 1 of the best paragraphs Ive ever read), I've been playing with "House Rules" in every sports game I've played for 6 or 7 years now for this exact reason. If you don't have some rules it simply makes the game to easy. I believe the problem is that the programmers who do the games are great programmers but know very little about sports and therefore don't know how to properly code the AI programming, if I had the money I would make my own company hire half programmers and half guys like us who understand the strategy of games and probably make way better sports games because you'd have both perspectives covered not just one.

My problem with playing with the control really low is that I can still pitch effectively but I don't have fun doing it. I only discovered this site 2 weeks ago at that time I loved mk's sliders so I drafted(i'm addicted to fantasy drafts in every sports game) a new franchise and was really excited to play some much more competitive games then I had previously been playing. Anyway I've played 20 games so far, 10 with control set low(2 at 10, 1 at 5 and 7at 0) and 10 games with control set at 35. These are my stats:

10 games control set low: 91 IP 68 H 7 Homers 8 D 27 walks 148 K's

2.73 ERA

10 games control set 35 : 90 IP 77 H 7 Homers 6 Doubles 5 walks 101 K's

2.67

As you can see I gave up similar hits(including the distribution of hits SLG% basically) both ways, the only difference were with control at 35 I walked 80% less and threw way less pitches(I edited my starting pitchers stamina lower so it doesn't give me an advantage over the AI basically even throwing a lot less pitches I still pitch the same number of innings per game with my starter and still way less than the AI).

However look at those stats closely and you'll see why I had no fun at all pitching with the control low. I averaged just under 15 strikeouts per 9 innings with my pitching staff. That's just stupid, basically I had a strikeout rate with my team(which includes guys like Arredondo, Sherrill, Gearrin and Feldman) that was just as good as Kimbrel(I have him too) and Chapman in real baseball. So far this year the Nationals pitching staff leads baseball with a k/9 of 9.3 and in the game I was leading with just under 15. The reason I was getting absurd strikeouts numbers was because the ball kept going where I didn't want it to go, I was taking advantage of glitch pitches like crazy without meaning to(I was throwing something like 30-45 glitch pitches per game). But with the control set at 35 I'm getting about 5 glitch pitches per game by accident, and I'm averaging 10 strikeouts per game instead of 15 and I allow the same number of total runs both ways.

So my point is that neither way is 100% realistic. The low control way makes the pitch count and walk numbers realistic but makes the strikeout numbers way unrealistic(strikeouts are my favorite part of the game but it ruins the fun of getting them when you're getting 15 a game), while 35 control makes the strikeout numbers very close to realistic while making the walk numbers and pitch counts way to low. The point is that it comes down to the fact that both have their strengths and flaws, so it just depends which one you personally have more fun doing.

I enjoy my way because when I get outs and strikeouts I do it by changing speeds, sequencing my pitches and making good pitches in good spots(I have a great memory and honestly remember the pitch sequence I did to every batter in the game then pitch off that sequence the 2nd and 3rd times through the order,) when I get every strikeout I get, literally every single one I fist pump because I know I won the battle making good pitches, when I give up a homer I'm cool with it because I made a good pitch and the hitter just beat me because he's also pretty good and in that situation he outpiched sequenced me by knowing what I was gonna throw and I can respect that, the battle wouldn't be fun if you never lost.

I don't enjoy pitching with low control for this reason. I'm only sequencing pitches and not location(i try location but I can't because the control won't let me), I never fist pumped strikeouts or outs pitching this way because I knew I was just getting lucky and taking advantage of glitches in the game. Even getting 15 K's a game I felt like I was only getting 1 because I wasn't earning my K's. When I gave up a homer I got super mad because I tried to throw a fastball low and outside(outside by like 2 feet), I did the motion correct but some random generator decided the fastball should go right down the middle belt high, I don't respect the hitter for hitting that homer off me because from my point of view he beat me by getting lucky, I didn't actually make a bad pitch selection or sequence but I got screwed for it anyway.

To sum it up pitching my way when you make a good pitch in a good location you get rewarded 95% of the time, when you make a bad pitch in a bad location(or screw up the pitching motion) you get drilled 95% of the time(my way only works though if you play with House Rules and don't take advantage of glitch pitches). With control low you get rewarded or not rewarded basically at random depending on where the pitch decides it's going to go, also because with the control low the only challenge is sequencing your pitches(you don't really control the sequence of location) and for me I've played over 500 games the last 2 years and have only played with catcher suggestion on for about 20 innings so sequencing pitches to me is super un-challenging. When any GM in baseball wants to know about a pitching prospect the first question they ask their head scout is "is this guy a pitcher or a thrower?" with control low I feel like a thrower and with control at 35 I feel like a pitcher and for me indiidually this is the most important part of the game, I want to feel like a pitcher, that's why I spend $60 on this game in the first place.

My suggestion would be try both ways or a variation(ex. control at 25-30)
and discover which one you like best for yourself. I may have put a lot of thought into explaining why I like my way better but I've stuck with this way simply because it's more fun to me individually then anything having to do with stats or how other people are playing the game so try it out for yourself and find what suits your playing style best but even more importantly gives you what you want the most from playing the game(I want to feel like a pitcher).


Mk, I've picked off 4 guys in total. I'm pretty sure the only way to do it is to throw over at the exact instance the runner increases their lead, so your only chance of picking someone off is instantly you can't hold unto the ball with the pitcher and delay to pick guys off you have to try and pick them off the instant you get the ball with the pitcher and see them try to increase their lead, it's still pretty hard and almost never happens.

[mkharsh33]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Let me sum up what you just said in not so many words:

All sports video games are broken. You must find the sliders that, in spite of the frustrations and the inability to get a 100% simulation-like experience, provide you with a certain degree of fun & realism. At the end of the day you must accept these games for what they are.

- - - -

Think that pretty much sums it up.

[BrianU]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Thank you for that insightful post Braves Fan! I think we both have similar play styles/skill levels. I have always enjoyed playing the defensive side of Madden and MLB as well.

It looks like you basically dont throw any pitch belt high or higher maybe it would be easier to ask what pitches are ok to throw belt high or higher? Do you only throw below the belt then?

I like to play my franchise by playing 1 game then simming 5 playing 1 game simming 5 that way I use all the pitchers and can move along quicker. I guess I can just adjust the SP stamina for that days game then edit it back after to keep sim stats intact what adjustment to stamina do you make for your SPs to get a good amount of IP during the games you play? -10 stamina -15 stamina?

It's unfortunate you have to choose to either get too many Ks one way or not enough walks the other way But I was having an easy time getting Ks and your insight about glitch pitches explains it to me. My strikeout pitch was the fastball above the zone it worked much too easy Thank you for the discussion!

[mkharsh33]

Re: mkharsh33 MLB 2K12 Sliders: Classic Hitting / Total Control Pitching

Have you guys tried raising the cpu batting contact slider? It sounds like you're just keeping things as is...

My testing has found that when you raise contact the strikeouts will indeed decrease. Try a combination of 85 cpu contact and 80 (or 85) cpu power.

Here's the way I see it: I want power bats to scare the hell out of me. I want to know the second I throw that meat pitch it's gone. Pitching outside the zone will in fact make the cpu swing at certain pitches. But raise their contact...

It sounds like you guys are just taking the sliders for what they are and finding you don't like certain things. Try raising cpu contact to 85 or 90 (or higher). Play around 10 games and then report your statistical findings. I'd be curious to see what happens. Thanks!