Giambi coming back around....

[dieselboy]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

Despite his slow start...

Giambi might have his best .OPS season he has ever had, which is amazing.

[dce1228]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

Do you honestly think his 21 homers this season were because of steroids?

Deep down I actually like Giambi, and I would like to think he's off the juice... but I find the current trend of celebrating his exploits to be hypocritical... i.e...an entire thread that's dedicated to said exploits where the ramifications of his cheating past are conveniently brushed under the carpet...

As far as I'm concerned each yankee fan that contributes to this thread was more offended by Giambi's crappy play than of the steroid abuse....

And again I pose the question that if we throw an asterisk on the statistical achievements of admitted cheaters than also should we throw an asterisk on the games won by those cheaters...

[dce1228]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

If your going to do that, you might as well just wipe out everything that happened in baseball from the mid 90's on.

LOL, you know, that might be what eventually happens...

[Armitage]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

Deep down I actually like Giambi, and I would like to think he's off the juice... but I find the current trend of celebrating his exploits to be hypocritical... i.e...an entire thread that's dedicated to said exploits where the ramifications of his cheating past are conveniently brushed under the carpet...

As far as I'm concerned each yankee fan that contributes to this thread was more offended by Giambi's crappy play than of the steroid abuse....

And again I pose the question that if we throw an asterisk on the statistical achievements of admitted cheaters than also should we throw an asterisk on the games won by those cheaters...

Well, I don't like Giambi since the 2001 season and I feel the same way. It does come across as being hypocritical that he's celebrated while the other guys in the steroid investigation get ripped. Even if he is clean, everything he does will and should be tainted for the rest of his career. He has taken at least one test(one's been confirmed) so far apparently, it wasn't known when he took it but he passed. He's always been a bigger than average guy to begin with but he looks a lot bigger now than he did earlier in the season.

I really hope opposing teams don't contribute to his season anymore because he is never going to cool down this season. Why wasn't he walked every time at bat last night? At this rate he's going to be up for MVP and that would really throw this debate of whether he's truly clean or not out of whack. He'd at least take away votes from guys that are worthy, even A-Rod. As much as I hate to admit it, A-Rod looks like he's definitely clean.

[deeman11747]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

Deep down I actually like Giambi,

Oh well in that case....



Why don't we appoint you head of the Asterisk Committe and your job coulb be to go back and find each game that may have been affected by steroids. Guess what? You'd be doing it for the rest of your life... because every single game of baseball over the last 10 years has been directly or indirectly altered because of steroid use.

[TheGenius]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

because every single game of baseball over the last 10 years has been directly or indirectly altered because of steroid use.

I think this is an extremely outrageous claim. I might be naive but I don't believe for a second that out of even close to all the games over the past ten years, at least one person playing in all those games had the advantage of Vitamin S.

I haven't weighed in yet but I'm going to. I used to like Giambi. Now I can't stand the guy. He can have all the class in the world but when you're taking an illegal substance to improve your performance you are cheating. You are cheating yourself, you are cheating the Yankees out of millions of dollars, you're cheating the fans who idolize you, and most of all you're cheating the game. Taking away from legends who have put up huge numbers to only have them crushed by some cheater.

So I don't care if people forgive a guy because he gave an "apology" or what have you. To me, guys like the Giambi brothers, Palmiero, Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, and Canseco can all go to hell, because they have taken so much away from the game I love.

[deeman11747]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

I think this is an extremely outrageous claim. I might be naive but I don't believe for a second that out of even close to all the games over the past ten years, at least one person playing in all those games had the advantage of Vitamin S.

.

That is exactly the answer I was expecting... but thats not the point I was making. I also think its outrageous to think that a player in every single game over the last 10 years has been juicing.

Here's an example... follow me with this.

Lets say in 1998... Player X was juicing. That day he was facing Roger Clemens. Clemens gets the bases loaded and Player X comes up to the plate. He hits a fly ball that just leaves the stadium. Maybe without the steroids (ones that allow you to work out more, not ones the help your recover from injury) the ball would've been a long fly out. Now Clemens just gave up 4 runs and is taken out of the game after 50 pitches. If it was a flyout, Clemens stays in... pitches 7 innings throwing 100 pitches.

Now... next game Clemens... only throwing 50 pitches the game before... as able to go longer in the game. Clemens wins the game thworing 120 pitches. Maybe ifg he had thrown 100 the game before, he would've been only able to throw 100 pitches... turn it over to the bullpen... and the bullpen may have blown it. So Clemens wins this game and this game may have been INDIRECTLY altered by Player X juicing.

Now lets say 50 players were on steroids each year. Think of the long chain of effect that may have on games he plays in and his opponents play in.


The wording in my previous post was wrong. I shouldnt've said "every single game of the last 10 years has been altered".... I should've said "every single game of the last 10 years MAY have been altered"


Anyone understand or am I speaking crazy?

[dce1228]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

That is exactly the answer I was expecting... but thats not the point I was making. I also think its outrageous to think that a player in every single game over the last 10 years has been juicing.

Here's an example... follow me with this.

Lets say in 1998... Player X was juicing. That day he was facing Roger Clemens. Clemens gets the bases loaded and Player X comes up to the plate. He hits a fly ball that just leaves the stadium. Maybe without the steroids (ones that allow you to work out more, not ones the help your recover from injury) the ball would've been a long fly out. Now Clemens just gave up 4 runs and is taken out of the game after 50 pitches. If it was a flyout, Clemens stays in... pitches 7 innings throwing 100 pitches.

Now... next game Clemens... only throwing 50 pitches the game before... as able to go longer in the game. Clemens wins the game thworing 120 pitches. Maybe ifg he had thrown 100 the game before, he would've been only able to throw 100 pitches... turn it over to the bullpen... and the bullpen may have blown it. So Clemens wins this game and this game may have been INDIRECTLY altered by Player X juicing.

Now lets say 50 players were on steroids each year. Think of the long chain of effect that may have on games he plays in and his opponents play in.


The wording in my previous post was wrong. I shouldnt've said "every single game of the last 10 years has been altered".... I should've said "every single game of the last 10 years MAY have been altered"


Anyone understand or am I speaking crazy?

Smells like your trying to rationalize that Giambi's cheating, or any other player's cheating, is okay since it may have indirect effects that actually help the players that are victimized by cheating players...

Akin to saying maybe that... if Giambi isn't juicing in the 2003 playoffs and the Sox beat the Yanks because of it maybe the Red Sox get on board a bus that is doomed to driving off the road on the way to the airport to go and meet the Marlins in the World Series and maybe, INDIRECTLY, Giambi saves the entire Red Sox team from certain death by shooting roids AND CHEATING...

[Thrasha]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

Smells like your trying to rationalize that Giambi's cheating, or any other player's cheating, is okay since it may have indirect effects that actually help the players that are victimized by cheating players...

Akin to saying maybe that... if Giambi isn't juicing in the 2003 playoffs and the Sox beat the Yanks because of it maybe the Red Sox get on board a bus that is doomed to driving off the road on the way to the airport to go and meet the Marlins in the World Series and maybe, INDIRECTLY, Giambi saves the entire Red Sox team from certain death by shooting roids AND CHEATING...

lmao


I'll always be pissed a that douche bag ******* for game 7 in 03

I'd love to see a columnist ask that prick to take an independent test not just for steroids, but for human growth hormones, and everything else out there.

[deeman11747]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

Smells like your trying to rationalize that Giambi's cheating, or any other player's cheating, is okay since it may have indirect effects that actually help the players that are victimized by cheating players...

Akin to saying maybe that... if Giambi isn't juicing in the 2003 playoffs and the Sox beat the Yanks because of it maybe the Red Sox get on board a bus that is doomed to driving off the road on the way to the airport to go and meet the Marlins in the World Series and maybe, INDIRECTLY, Giambi saves the entire Red Sox team from certain death by shooting roids AND CHEATING...

At what point in my post did I make any statement anywhere close to saying I thought cheating is okay. Please point it out to me.

[dce1228]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

At what point in my post did I make any statement anywhere close to saying I thought cheating is okay. Please point it out to me.

You stated that since Clemens was knocked out of game A after 50 pitches he was able to throw longer in game B... hence, his success in game B is because he was rested in game A...

Maybe you should try again, because I think this is the jist of it...

In the end, there are direct and indirect results from roiding players, and some of those indirect results can be positive for victimized players, i.e.. Clemens in game B...

[deeman11747]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

You stated that since Clemens was knocked out of game A after 50 pitches he was able to throw longer in game B... hence, his success in game B is because he was rested in game A...

Maybe you should try again, because I think this is the jist of it...

In the end, there are direct and indirect results from roiding players, and some of those indirect results can be positive for victimized players, i.e.. Clemens in game B...

My point was a very general one... you read way too much into it. My point wasn't that cheating may result in a positive outcome for some players... it was that cheating players have an effect on everyone in someway (whether it be positive or negative, it doesn't matter)... and this was just one example I came up with.

[dce1228]

Re: Giambi coming back around....

My point was a very general one... you read way too much into it. My point wasn't that cheating may result in a positive outcome for some players... it was that cheating players have an effect on everyone in someway (whether it be positive or negative, it doesn't matter)... and this was just one example I came up with.

In other words, if the results are both positive and negative there's no need to get yours (or anyone's) panties up in a bunch about it?? ... no?? Just what is the point of the point you were making, Dee??

From my vantage point, the results were pretty damn negative for the 2003 Red Sox since Giambi was admittedly on the roids when he hit those 2 bombs off Pedro in a game that went extra innings... wouldn't you agree??

I hope your tap-dancing shoes are within arms length...