Who's your nl mvp

[VTek33]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

In case people forgot, the V in MVP stands for VALUABLE.

I have a hard time believing the Cardinals would be crappy without Pujols. They would still have a pretty strong line-up with a pretty strong rotation.

If the Braves lose Andruw Jones, they probably finish no better then 3rd. Who's gonna' carry the load if Jones goes down? Chipper Jones? Jeff Francouer? Julio Franco? No.

[VTek33]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

I'd give the MVP to the best overall player in the league, regardless of his team's performance. Therefore, I'll take Derrek Lee.

That's a total oxymoron.

You can't be valuable if your team sucks. (Spare me the A-ROD WON IT WITH THE RANGERS!!!! post)

[remix]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

oh yeah I forgot that hitting .270 makes you the class of the league now.

Pujols is the better player, hands down.

Noone is questioning of who is better skillwise. Pujols is probably one if not the best player playing the game today. The MVP means most valuable to their team. Do you remember when the Braves had 3/5 of their SP out along with Chipper? At the same time they had struggling vets and rookies being called up in the dozens. Jones took the team on his shoulders for that duration and kept them in the post season hunt. I'm sure the Cardinals would still be at the top, maybe not lead by 14games, without Pujols in the lineup compared to the Braves and Jones not being in the lineup.

[Birdsonbat]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

If the Braves lose Andruw Jones, they probably finish no better then 3rd. Who's gonna' carry the load if Jones goes down? Chipper Jones? Jeff Francouer? Julio Franco? No.

Who's going to carry the Cards without Pujols? Grudzielanek? There is/was no Scott Rolen. Larry Walker might as well be a bench player as much as he's been out. Edmonds is hitting .270 and has not really been much of a factor this year. I don't think enough people know what the Cards' lineup has been for the majority of this season.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

If the Cards had all their starters for the year then it wouldnt be Pujols, but that is not the case. Pujols carried that team as much as Jones did.

BTW its interesting how earlier all Brave fans kept worshiping all those rookies, saying they were playing incredible and were the reason that team was winning, but now it the rookies are just average and Jones can carry the team.

Regardless, the most important person on that team is Bobby Cox.

[Kashanova]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

pujols should win, jones batting avg is tooooooooo low. pujuls is having a great season as always and i think his stats are better

[CWood2]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

If the Cards had all their starters for the year then it wouldnt be Pujols, but that is not the case. Pujols carried that team as much as Jones did.

BTW its interesting how earlier all Brave fans kept worshiping all those rookies, saying they were playing incredible and were the reason that team was winning, but now it the rookies are just average and Jones can carry the team.

Regardless, the most important person on that team is Bobby Cox.

You're right about Bobby Cox. Does anybody else love watching TBS and hearing Bobby from the front step yelling "Come on Gilly" or someone else's clubhouse nickname?

Anyway, what I disagree with is the rookie emphasis. The fact that they pulled so many guys straight from AA and seeing the future is what's amazing. How they're playing now, aside from Francoeur who's incredible, Blaine Boyer and a good start from Davies who's dropped off, they're just keeping them afloat. It's worthy of recognition, and as good as Kelly Johnson looks as a future 3-hole hitter, he's only hitting .239 while Langerhans is at .248. Those are Andruw's corner outfielders. Now take Hudson, Hampton and Thompson out of the rotation while Chipper is hurt, Furcal can't get on base, and the Nats look unstoppable. This equation minus Andruw...not gonna happen. Defense not even factored in yet.

Pujols is the first player I'd take if I were starting a team (most likely), but he's not my NL MVP. As Vtek said, the "V" just won't allow it.

[VTek33]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Who's going to carry the Cards without Pujols? Grudzielanek? There is/was no Scott Rolen. Larry Walker might as well be a bench player as much as he's been out. Edmonds is hitting .270 and has not really been much of a factor this year. I don't think enough people know what the Cards' lineup has been for the majority of this season.

If you take away Jones from Atlanta and Pujols from St. Louis, St. Louis is still better.

[Tmacattack]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

but they also have a much better record with both on the team...if that made any sense...

[BGarrett7]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Answer me this: Whose defense means more to their team, Pujols or Jones?

[VTek33]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Answer me this: Whose defense means more to their team, Pujols or Jones?

Jones.

That guy a friggin' regular on Web Gems.

[SportsTop]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

pujols should win, jones batting avg is tooooooooo low. pujuls is having a great season as always and i think his stats are better

Any statistic (batting average incluced) carries no more weight by itself than any other when considering the most valuable player. .270 is not a "toooooooo low" batting average when measured against Jones' other contributions. I'm sure Andruw would love to have the hitters Pujols has around him for added protection. Instead, he's had the sporadic help of Chipper Jones and a number of 2nd year and rookie players batting behind him.

In 1988 Kirk Gibson had 78 RBIs and 25 HRs. A clean-up hitter with 78 RBIs is unfathomable. Darryl Strawberry had 39 HRs and 101 RBIs in comparison. Yet is was the intangibles Gibson brought to the Dodgers that won him the MVP that year. His leadership and ability to carry that team is what propelled him over Strawberry to win a close vote that year.

[BGarrett7]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

While I do feel that Andruw is quite deserving of the NL MVP, I do have to admit that his average is what is going to be a key piece riding against him.

With Andruw's current .271 average taken into consideration, there hasn't been an NL player with an average lower in the past 35 years (Bench's .270 in 1972), and there have only been seven NL players since who have hit less than .300 and won the MVP (Kevin Mitchell being the last in 1989).

But, you know, A-Rod did hit .298 just two seasons ago when he won it on a last place team. So, anything's possible.

[IlliniM1ke]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

I'm sure Andruw would love to have the hitters Pujols has around him for added protection. Instead, he's had the sporadic help of Chipper Jones and a number of 2nd year and rookie players batting behind him.

Pujols hasn't exactly had the protection of years past this season, Rolens been out a lot, Walker plays about every other day, Edmonds has been out a couple times, I think Andruw will win it but its amazing how every year Pujols consistently puts up great numbers only to be overshadowed by someone else.

[philliesfan980]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Pujols hasn't exactly had the protection of years past this season, Rolens been out a lot, Walker plays about every other day, Edmonds has been out a couple times, I think Andruw will win it but its amazing how every year Pujols consistently puts up great numbers only to be overshadowed by someone else.

This year its gotta be Jones. Jones really stepped it up early this year when alot of the pitchers went down to injury. If he didn't start playing really well when he did, who knows where this team might be record wise.

Pujols has had "bad luck" in terms of guys having really great seasons when he does as well. Pujols shouldn't worry too much because when all is said and done, he should be right up there in the top 5 of all time.