Who's your nl mvp

[BigRed]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Did you really just post that?

Last I remember, Matt Morris was a 20 game winner and was 8-0 at one point this season. And as for your Marquis comment, do you have any idea as to how many players have been traded only to go to another team and become a quality pitcher?

Morris and Marquis have at least been in the rotation for the entire year (along with the rest of the Cardinals five man staff) and there is something to be said about stability.

Well, yes I did actually post that. And if you would have bothered to read the rest of the post, you would have read:

"I would say the advantage in pitching would go to the Cardinals. The rotation has been healthier and they have Chris Carpenter going every 5th day. And the closer has been consistant. I wouldn't say the bullpen is anything great (heck, it's been downright awful at times), but the success of the starters and the ability of the offense to bail it out has disguised that deficiency."

And by healthy, I assumed you would have understood that because of that, they would pitched in more scheduled starts (i.e., not skipping a start, or having someone fill in). I will be more clear in the future.

And yes, Matt Morris has won 20 games (22 to be exact)...in 2001. 4 seasons and 2 surgeries ago. And guess what. Jon Lieber had 20 that year also. Scared of him? So did Jamie Moyer. Paul Abbot had 17.

So, are you saying a pitching staff with Matt Morris, Jon Lieber, Jamie Moyer and Paul Abbot would be one of the best in baseball?

And as far as Morris' record. He did start out the season 8-0, with an ERA of 3.16 over his first 12 starts. Since then he's been 6-8 and has an ERA of 4.04 (4.36 in July, 4.93 in August and 5.91 in 2 starts in September)

No, I would not call this guy dominant. Or even reliable since the All-Star Break.

As for Jason Marquis, he's 12-13 with a 4.11 ERA. He also started out hot with a record of 5-2 and an ERA of 3.27. However in the 13 starts that followed, he went 1-10 while his ERA ballooned to 4.67 (3 times he gave up 10 runs in a start). 13 straight games. 13 in a row of his 29 total starts.

Consistant? No. Reliable? No. Stable? Well if you consider him being there every day stable? I'd say yes. But the roller coaster the dude rides would steer me in the direction of a different answer.

But, still, I don't see where this has anything to do with Pujols and Jones. And the only reason I go to the depth I do with this is because the Cardinals are a myth to most people. They're pitching is ok and their offense has been a M.A.S.H. unit all year. But, I'm sure there will be yet another reason come up to diminish Pujols' "value" to the team. Better bat boys? All the fans wear red? Or maybe it's because there's a third foul pole in the stadium that confuses the umpires, or something?

[BGarrett7]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Thats weird.......it says Andruw has played in 144 games on the Braves site....

That is correct. Apparently you didn't notice that my criteria for the records was when the player was not in the starting lineup. While Andruw has appearead in 144 games, he either entered the game as a defensive replacement or as a pinch hitter in three of those games. There has been only one game this year in which he did not appear. I believe the same is true of Pujols, as well.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

LOL oh.......whoops! **flies over head**

[BGarrett7]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Five. Zero.

And career number 300, to boot.

[steveeee]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Andruw Jones vs. Pujols: In a recent column we discussed and demonstrated how, contrary to popular myth, the Cardinals' lineup has been hit with more injuries than Atlanta's lineup has been. But we failed to mention that Jones has a below-average defensive zone rating for a major league center fielder. (I don't think I buy that one; Jones is a splendid CF.) And what about some comparative offensive numbers? Jones has more homers and RBIs than Pujols. But through Thursday, Pujols led Jones by 68 points in batting average, 79 points in on-base percentage, 45 points in slugging percentage, 115 points in batting average with runners in scoring position, and by 42 points with runners in scoring position with two outs. Are voters really going to give the MVP to a player - Jones - who is batting .218 with runners in scoring position? (Jones does have a better batting average than Pujols does in close and late situations, as defined by STATS, Inc).

that was from the 9th

I would say Pujols of course. I think he deserves it... but Jones and Lee deserve it as well.

it will be interesting to see who gets it

and btw.. I don't care if Morriss was a 20 game winner or not

my starting rotation in the playoffs would be

Carp
Mulder
Soup
Marquis

until Morris proves me wrong

[BGarrett7]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

But we failed to mention that Jones has a below-average defensive zone rating for a major league center fielder.

That statement alone should prove to anyone that stats, especiallybogus ones like range factor, have way too much emphasis in baseball. The single fact that this zone rating state says that Andruw is a below-average CF should totally eliminate any and all cred attached to it.

Words can't possibly describe how pissed off that single statement made me.

[CWood2]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

That statement alone should prove to anyone that stats, especiallybogus ones like range factor, have way too much emphasis in baseball. The single fact that this zone rating state says that Andruw is a below-average CF should totally eliminate any and all cred attached to it.

Words can't possibly describe how pissed off that single statement made me.

Andruw Jones did not become my favorite athlete by having a below average range factor. Re...............diculous.

We are all now dumber just for having listened. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Thought Id bring this back up...as of now Jones still has 12 more HRs and more RBIs, but Pujols is hitting 66 points higher than him (.329 - .263) and an incredible 80 points higher on base (.427 - .347). Pujols advantage in OBPS is 1.030 to .925...so with Andruw keeping about the same distance in HR and RBI, both teams winning their divisions convincingly, but Pujols owning the hitting average/on-base/slugging by a very sizable margin now I was wondering what peoples vote would be now. Personally I odnt see any reason to change my vote from Pujols.

EDIT: that person who said Andruw had below-average range is just...

[steveeee]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

good article.. biased but good

Pujols' stats clearly spell out "MVP"
By Bernie Miklasz
ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
10/01/2005

Sports Columnist Bernie Miklasz
[More columns]



Although he has had only five years to put dents and divots in the place by pelting the walls and the seats and the outfield grass with his blistering line drives, Albert Pujols is the best all-around Cardinals' hitter to work at Busch Stadium.

Lou Brock stole more bases and had more panache, and Ozzie Smith made more unbelievable plays and annually led the majors in flair. But the subject and the art here is hitting, and in Albert Pujols, no Cardinal has done it as consistently well since Stan Musial.

With one more regular-season game to go at Busch, Pujols has posted this average year: .332 batting average, 40 homers, 124 runs batted in, 126 runs scored, .416 on-base percentage, .620 slugging percentage.

And as the hours and the at-bats wind down, Pujols is going out with a bang. In the Cardinals' first two wins over the visiting Cincinnati Reds, Pujols has been on base eight times in 11 plate appearances, and he has smoked two homers with seven RBIs and five runs scored.Advertisement


Pujols was honored Saturday as the first baseman on the all-time Busch Stadium team. With this final-weekend blast of offense, Pujols seems determined to strike the first wrecking-ball blow to the old ballpark.

Perhaps this late explosion will be noticed by the MVP voters, who must submit their ballots by late Sunday. Remarkably, Pujols may be denied the MVP again if voters transfix on Atlanta's Andruw Jones and his 51 homers and league-leading RBI total while ignoring his mediocre overall batting average (.262) and his comically inferior .207 average with runners in scoring position.

If Jones receives the MVP, it'll be with the lowest batting average in the history of the award. And Jones' batting average with runners in scoring position ranks 64th in the National League.

"Albert is the MVP, and with no disrespect to Andruw Jones, it's by a healthy margin," Cardinals manager Tony La Russa said. "Just put together everything he does: the hitting, the leadership, the defense, the way he runs the bases. The whole game."

Pujols is so machine-like with his production, there's a tendency to take him for granted. Pujols hasn't won an MVP award despite being the best player every year on a successful team. It seems that others in the NL always have snatched the headlines and the network face time and the MVP award. Each year, someone emerges to hit more homers, supply more drama, or benefit from the wonders of flaxseed oil.

That leaves Pujols as the greatest all-around hitter with an empty trophy case. Pujols certainly rates the MVP this season after carrying a lineup that went without Scott Rolen, Reggie Sanders and Larry Walker for extensive stretches. And Pujols has hit .330 with 41 homers and 117 RBIs with Jim Edmonds having a down year.

Only one NL hitter ranks in the top three of the league leaders in batting average, homers, RBIs, runs, total bases, on-base percentage and slugging percentage. And that's Pujols. Hardly a one-dimensional slugger, Pujols produces runs in two ways: setting them up by getting on base and driving runs in when others reach base. Pujols leads the league in runs scored, and he's sixth with a .331 average with RISP. Pujols is a creator and a finisher.

Sunday, the Cardinals will conclude the regular season with the league's best record and with Pujols as their established leader. This is hardly a coincidence. The team's finest qualities are personified by Pujols.

"I don't care about myself," he said. "It's about winning."

Pujols influences his environment with his relentless desire to compete, his adherence to the highest standards, and the unwavering belief that the team comes first.

"If your best player sets the best example, as a manager, you have a tremendous head start," La Russa said.

The Cardinals have adopted Pujols' personality, and that should be a prominent consideration in the MVP equation.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

My vote still goes to Derrek Lee. He's had the best year of anyone in the NL at the plate and played excellent defense. He did all he could.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

ZXLT, sure. But theyre not in the playoffs, thats the problem.

[steveeee]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

doesn't mean he can't win it though

[primo1]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Didn't A-Rod win it a couple years back with that Texas squad which didn't make the playoffs???...but anyways my vote is for Pujols simply better ******* with runners in scoring position.

[jpup]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

1. Lee
2. Pujols
3. Delgado

[jpup]

Re: Who's your nl mvp

Didn't A-Rod win it a couple years back with that Texas squad which didn't make the playoffs???...but anyways my vote is for Pujols simply better ******* with runners in scoring position.

Actually the stats say otherwise.

D. Lee OPS w/RSP 1.133
A. Pujols OPS w/RSP 1.097