More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

[Scottdau]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

I think Bonds is in better shape now, because he probably never took anything until he was 34-35. Those other players took them while they were in their prime. Bonds had his prime, and then extended it with steriods, and became a machine while other players are normally breaking down.

Had he been taking them at the age of 28, then he probably would be out of the league by now like those other players. So they can extend your career if you wait to use them, that's my theory.

Not to mention, he was using the most inovative steriod methods, with the help of Conte, etc.

I can except that, that makes good sense! But according to reports he took them in 97, so maybe he is above the exception lol.

[Stu]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

So, steroids make you stronger. Stronger isn't always better, although I can't give you too many cases as where it makes you worse, either. However, you still must be a TERRIFIC baseball player to be at all advantageous of the steroids that you're taking. Look at Jeremy Giambi, Alex Sanchez, Ryan Franklin, Jorge Piedra, Rafael Palmeiro, or anybody else that has taken advantage of steroids. I do not see them rising up like Bonds has.

No doubt that Bonds was a terrific baseball player before steroids, but he wasn't taking them as a recreational drug...

[DGetz]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

I don't know where you guys get this idea roids make you play longer. The truth is roids take you out before you are ready to go. Bonds is an exception. But look what happen to Mac, Sosa, Ken C, Jose C. Roids will tear you up fast. The body is not meant to hold all that much muscle. The joints are the first thing to go. I have tons of friends that took roids and they burn out fast! But OK roids make you play for ever!

I dont think anyone is arguing that riods let you play longer, but rather that they have allowed Bonds to be much more productive than he would otherwise be. Bonds has been hitting home runs almost twice as frequently after he started using roids than he had been before and the point people here are making is that without using steroids there's no way Bonds would have performed at that level at his age. Yes it is possible without steroids Bonds could have still been a major league player at age 39, but he would not have hit 45 home runs in 373 at-bats.

[iLLmatic]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

You know what I love? I've been listening to KNBR 680 a lot lately (Scottd will probably be aware of the things that I'm talking about), and The Razor and Mr. T (Ralph Barbiari and Tom Tolbert) keep saying how "Steroids make you better."

Okay, I'm going to already call B.S. Steroids give you an unprecedented amount of adrenaline, stamina, and rapid hormone increasage to make you a much stronger person IF acted upon. Basically, steroids aren't magic pills; you don't take them one night, and all of the sudden you're able to bench 200 lbs more than normal. You still must work at it, but now you're at the unfair advantage to do things longer (and stronger). You will gain more with less pain.


So, steroids make you stronger. Stronger isn't always better, although I can't give you too many cases as where it makes you worse, either. However, you still must be a TERRIFIC baseball player to be at all advantageous of the steroids that you're taking. Look at Jeremy Giambi, Alex Sanchez, Ryan Franklin, Jorge Piedra, Rafael Palmeiro, or anybody else that has taken advantage of steroids. I do not see them rising up like Bonds has.

Now, Bonds has been a terrific baseball player since Little League. He matched up with Albert Belle's success as a kid, and then in high school he became the best in the state by far. My buddy Ray McDonald took Bonds out of the Triple Crown ranking in high school by beating him in batting average (just saw him again today). He told me about how Bonds hit a home run once in high school at Central Park (in San Mateo, CA) 3/4 of the way up a building, which is across a two-lane, two-way street beyond a 350-foot fence in right field of the park. I've played there many-a-times before, so I know what kind of shot it is to even hit it out of there. You even have to hit it past trees to hit it over the fence there.







Think of it what you will, but this is the kind of shot that it was (photo taken from Google Earth):

















Now, this is just an estimation, but that ball would have had to go at least 450 or 460 feet. Bonds, being a senior in high school at the time, hit a pitch that would have been at most 85 MPH, with a bat that would have been at best what guys like Santiago use today, with his small 180 pound figure as a teenager. Do you guys realize how far he hit that ball? Him and Greg Anderson were just getting acquainted at the time, and he still hit the ball as far as he does today? Call me crazy, but I think that while strength is a lot of it, he already had enough to supply himself from being the best that he can be. Now, it's all about your hip turn and the contact that you make.

Believe me... steroids only make you stronger, and only allow you to hit the ball harder if you are weak. Bonds has always had the same bat speed, no doubt. I believe that, without whatever he took, he would be a better player than he is today. Does that mean more home runs? No. Does that mean less home runs? No. I'd say that it probably means more stolen bases and gold glove chances, but probably not too much different in the home run category.






Sorry about this rant. It was a nice and long way to start off my wakeup from my nap. Just wanted to get that off of my chest now.

Thats close to Hillsdale shopping Mall right? Across the street from 24 hour fitness?

[GAMEC0CK2002]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

I think Colin Cowheard (sp?) on ESPN radio hit it on the head last week. You take steroids b/c they give you an advantage. If they had no effect, you wouldn't use them. Simple as that.

Was he a HoF'er before steroids? Yes. Are his stats now inflated? Heck yes.

[mjb2124]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

One thing people keep forgetting is the recovery affect of steroids. They allow a player at Barry's age to recover faster from injuries and other ailments.

Also, HGH is a totally different beast. HGH isn't something that will make his muscles too large and breakdown his body. The SI article stated as such. Bonds was first on other 'roids and that's when his muscles got too big and he tore a muscle in his arm due to this. Then his trainer got him on HGH because it wouldn't have those side affects.

[mjb2124]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

Your an idiot.

Please refrain from name calling. It's a violation of the TOS and won't be tolerated.

[Stu]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

One thing people keep forgetting is the recovery affect of steroids. They allow a player at Barry's age to recover faster from injuries and other ailments.

Also, HGH is a totally different beast. HGH isn't something that will make his muscles too large and breakdown his body. The SI article stated as such. Bonds was first on other 'roids and that's when his muscles got too big and he tore a muscle in his arm due to this. Then his trainer got him on HGH because it wouldn't have those side affects.

Exactly. According to some it makes them feel like every day is opening day. Also with HGH, it's been shown to increase muscle and decrease body fat in people who don't change their routine at all. This is something that would help sustain a player at Bonds age over the course of the season.

While the effects it has on how far he hits the ball are unknown, it's clear, no pun intended, that whatever he was taking allowed him to perform at a higher level more consistently.

[Kashanova]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

what edvidence do they have again?

[Stu]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

what edvidence do they have again?

This narrative is based on more than a thousand pages of documents and interviews with more than 200 people, many of whom we spoke to repeatedly.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/magazine/03/06/growth.doc0313/

[Blzer]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

Thats close to Hillsdale shopping Mall right? Across the street from 24 hour fitness?

Well, it's on the other side of Highway 92. It's around 9th avenue or so, when Hillsdale is around 31st avenue.

[Skerik]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

You know what I love? I've been listening to KNBR 680 a lot lately (Scottd will probably be aware of the things that I'm talking about), and The Razor and Mr. T (Ralph Barbiari and Tom Tolbert) keep saying how "Steroids make you better."

Okay, I'm going to already call B.S. Steroids give you an unprecedented amount of adrenaline, stamina, and rapid hormone increasage to make you a much stronger person IF acted upon. Basically, steroids aren't magic pills; you don't take them one night, and all of the sudden you're able to bench 200 lbs more than normal. You still must work at it, but now you're at the unfair advantage to do things longer (and stronger). You will gain more with less pain.


So, steroids make you stronger. Stronger isn't always better, although I can't give you too many cases as where it makes you worse, either. However, you still must be a TERRIFIC baseball player to be at all advantageous of the steroids that you're taking. Look at Jeremy Giambi, Alex Sanchez, Ryan Franklin, Jorge Piedra, Rafael Palmeiro, or anybody else that has taken advantage of steroids. I do not see them rising up like Bonds has.

Now, Bonds has been a terrific baseball player since Little League. He matched up with Albert Belle's success as a kid, and then in high school he became the best in the state by far. My buddy Ray McDonald took Bonds out of the Triple Crown ranking in high school by beating him in batting average (just saw him again today). He told me about how Bonds hit a home run once in high school at Central Park (in San Mateo, CA) 3/4 of the way up a building, which is across a two-lane, two-way street beyond a 350-foot fence in right field of the park. I've played there many-a-times before, so I know what kind of shot it is to even hit it out of there. You even have to hit it past trees to hit it over the fence there.







Think of it what you will, but this is the kind of shot that it was (photo taken from Google Earth):

















Now, this is just an estimation, but that ball would have had to go at least 450 or 460 feet. Bonds, being a senior in high school at the time, hit a pitch that would have been at most 85 MPH, with a bat that would have been at best what guys like Santiago use today, with his small 180 pound figure as a teenager. Do you guys realize how far he hit that ball? Him and Greg Anderson were just getting acquainted at the time, and he still hit the ball as far as he does today? Call me crazy, but I think that while strength is a lot of it, he already had enough to supply himself from being the best that he can be. Now, it's all about your hip turn and the contact that you make.

Believe me... steroids only make you stronger, and only allow you to hit the ball harder if you are weak. Bonds has always had the same bat speed, no doubt. I believe that, without whatever he took, he would be a better player than he is today. Does that mean more home runs? No. Does that mean less home runs? No. I'd say that it probably means more stolen bases and gold glove chances, but probably not too much different in the home run category.






Sorry about this rant. It was a nice and long way to start off my wakeup from my nap. Just wanted to get that off of my chest now.

I know it's early, but this truly deserves "post of the year" consideration.

:y4:

[USF11]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

I know it's early, but this truly deserves "post of the year" consideration.

:y4:

I definately second that vote! It even has a picture.

[Alliball]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

I will say this being a Giants fan. It is hard not sticking up for Bonds. Just imagine your stud player doing something wrong. I bet you would have a different feeling too. lol. That is what is funny about this whole thing. It is like thinking your kid is never bad and can do no wrong! lol Oh well I just hope baseball clean up all this crap once and for all!

I was a huge Caminiti fan and loved rubbing it my friends face how he was the best 3rd baseman in game at the time. When he came out and told the world about his steroid use during his MVP season in '96 my support for was gone. Padre fan thinks he should have his number retired while I think it would be an black mark on the franchise to give an honor like that to a guy that cheated.

So you're right, I do have a different feeling than you.

[BGarrett7]

Re: More Barry Bonds steroids stuff on ESPN radio right now

I just post it not caring if it gets replied to or not. I just post it, that's all. I'll defend the guy because people say that he cheated to get to where he is now. He may have cheated, but I can’t say that it helped him too much. It’s like he cheated off of the guy next to him on a test, and that guy got a B-.

I still prefer my test-taking analogy from earlier in this thread...

Look, here is an analogy for you: Let's say that I've got a huge test coming up. Overall, I've done relatively well in the class, but there are still those who are performing better than myself. So, along with my studying for the test in question, I come up with an elaborate scheme to cheat on the test and try to make myself appear better than those who were already doing better than me. Come test day, I end up getting caught. When the professor goes back and grades my test, do you think that my academic integrity will come into question regardless of whether I scored a 100 on the test, or a 38? I was caught cheating. It's pretty cut and dry. My achievements, or lack there of, are irrelevant to this fact.