Official Barry Bonds Thread

[Skerik]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Bonds is "always hurt" now because he's off steroids, not because he took them previously. During his peak steroid years he played a lot, like when he played in 153 games in 2001 while hitting his 73 HRs at age 37. Steroids help keep your body fresh and they help your body to recover after minor injuries. Now he's off steroids, his body isn't fresh, and he's spending a long time recovering from injuries to his knee and elbow. (This of course presumes these injuries are real in the first place and not some staged act so he has an excuse for playing like crap after he ditches the steroids).

And btw, equating Bonds becoming better at baseball due to steroid use with a weightlifter becoming better at baseball due to steroid use is beyond ********. Obviously steroids do not teach you the game of baseball. But in the case of a guy like Rafael Palmiero, they do turn a lot of long flyball outs into first and second row HRs. It's absurd to say steroids don't help a baseball player put up better numbers.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Their is no question Roids help him hit HR, but to say it prolong his career is asinine.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Bonds is "always hurt" now because he's off steroids, not because he took them previously. During his peak steroid years he played a lot, like when he played in 153 games in 2001 while hitting his 73 HRs at age 37. Steroids help keep your body fresh and they help your body to recover after minor injuries. Now he's off steroids, his body isn't fresh, and he's spending a long time recovering from injuries to his knee and elbow. (This of course presumes these injuries are real in the first place and not some staged act so he has an excuse for playing like crap after he ditches the steroids).

And btw, equating Bonds becoming better at baseball due to steroid use with a weightlifter becoming better at baseball due to steroid use is beyond ********. Obviously steroids do not teach you the game of baseball. But in the case of a guy like Rafael Palmiero, they do turn a lot of long flyball outs into first and second row HRs. It's absurd to say steroids don't help a baseball player put up better numbers.

Steroid do not help you stay healthy, if that was the case all these football payer that took them, would always be healthy. Steroids all good for one thing that is making you stronger, but real soon the problems start to happen.

And I agree with the weighting comment, but you still have to be able to hit the ball, when Bonds was getting bigger in 88 he couldn't hit the inside pitch, so his number went down until he was able to hit that pitch.

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

[quote=Scottd]

See this is what you are not getting. What makes you a better ball player? One that hits HR or all around numbers. HR don't make you a great ball player. Bonds was hitting 310 and 40 hr and 30 bases on an average. I would take that over hitting 73 and less bases. The HR has become so over rated, ever since Mac and Sosa. Before it was about overall ability. Hank A. was one of the greatest HR hitters, but was he better then Mays or others. He had another numbers, so maybe he isn't a good example, but I truly believe HR have become over rated. But that is what the fans want, so baseball want that too. You are saying that because of roids Bonds is better and still being able to play now, that is not true, roids hurt you they tear your body up. And people that take them a long time, usually in up hurting their career, I truly believe if Bonds was hitting 330 and 40 and 30 SB, That he would still be one of the greatest.

If he did roids the only reason I can see why, is because he felt he was one of the greatest and Mac and Sosa ws getting all this attention, so he join in. But to say roids help you I dis agree, sure maybe for the time being, but most of my friends that took roids, got injured real fast or easy, because of the roids. Look at football players that get injured all the time. Roids are not going to prolong your career they do the opposite and you should know that. And if the bridge is cheap I will buy it, I can always used a good bridge!

Sorry but not buying it. The steroids allowed him to produce numbers he would likely have not produced at that age. If anything they allowed him to play at a level that he wouldn't have been able to at such an advanced age. To think they didn't help him as a player is pure folly. You think he would have risked all he did, to take them if they didn't make him a better player?

I know Giants fans have to defend him till the end, but you lose all credibility with some of these arguments.

It would be like me defending Ken Caminiti, and trying to act like his steroid usage didn't have anything to do with his 1996 MVP year.

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Steroid do not help you stay healthy, if that was the case all these football payer that took them, would always be healthy. Steroids all good for one thing that is making you stronger, but real soon the problems start to happen.

And I agree with the weighting comment, but you still have to be able to hit the ball, when Bonds was getting bigger in 88 he couldn't hit the inside pitch, so his number went down until he was able to hit that pitch.

Steroids do help you recover from injuries, and do help you recover from athletic fatigue faster. You acting like all they do is increase strength, and that all it helped Bonds do was hit a few more homeruns.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

[QUOTE=bkrich83]

Sorry but not buying it. The steroids allowed him to produce numbers he would likely have not produced at that age. If anything they allowed him to play at a level that he wouldn't have been able to at such an advanced age. To think they didn't help him as a player is pure folly. You think he would have risked all he did, to take them if they didn't make him a better player?

I know Giants fans have to defend him till the end, but you lose all credibility with some of these arguments.

It would be like me defending Ken Caminiti, and trying to act like his steroid usage didn't have anything to do with his 1996 MVP year.

I am not saying it didn't make him hit HR, but to say roids prolong his career is false. That is all I am saying. Their is no question Roids help his HR, but to say it made him a better player is wrong. Unless HR mean more to you then they do me. I will take over all numbers any day, when I am deciding who is the greatest ever,

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

[quote=Scottd]

I am not saying it didn't make him hit HR, but to say roids prolong his career is false. That is all I am saying. Their is no question Roids help his HR, but to say it made him a better player is wrong. Unless HR mean more to you then they do me. I will take over all numbers any day, when I am deciding who is the greatest ever,

Sorry but without chemical help there's no way he puts up the same types of numbers at ages 36, 37, 38, 39 yrs old. So yes indeed, I do believe they allowed him to produce far beyond what he would have at those ages.

It's Naive to think otherwise. As I said I know you feel the need to defend him at all costs, but lets stay in reality somewhat.

He was the greatest player I have ever seen prior to all this. But his legacy is tainted. He cheated, he got caught, he has to live with the consequences. He will never be viewed with the respect he feels he deserves because of this, and he has no one to blame but himself.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Steroids do help you recover from injuries, and do help you recover from athletic fatigue faster. You acting like all they do is increase strength, and that all it helped Bonds do was hit a few more homeruns.

Yes that is true, but the damage of taking roids that way or more dangerous. If it was healthy to take for that reason they wouldn't be illegal. I know you know a lot of roids and I am sure you know more than me, but all my friends that took them were injured more then the guys that weren't taking them. In fact many careers were shorten because of roids.

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Yes that is true, but the damage of taking roids that way or more dangerous. If it was healthy to take for that reason they wouldn't be illegal. I know you know a lot of roids and I am sure you know more than me, but all my friends that took them were injured more then the guys that weren't taking them. In fact many careers were shorten because of roids.

I somehow doubt they had access to the same types of research, facilities, expertise and chemicals that Bonds did. Unless they were all multi-millionaire athletes.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

[QUOTE=bkrich83]

Sorry but without chemical help there's no way he puts up the same types of numbers at ages 36, 37, 38, 39 yrs old. So yes indeed, I do believe they allowed him to produce far beyond what he would have at those ages.

It's Naive to think otherwise. As I said I know you feel the need to defend him at all costs, but lets stay in reality somewhat.

He was the greatest player I have ever seen prior to all this. But his legacy is tainted. He cheated, he got caught, he has to live with the consequences. He will never be viewed with the respect he feels he deserves because of this, and he has no one to blame but himself.

I agree with the hr, but to say it prolong his career I disagree, because if he didn't take them, he might have never had these problems. Look at Nolan R., Hank A., and others that have played when they were older. Lets say he didn't take roids I still believe he would hit about 40 hr and 25 30 SB a year.

I am not defending Bonds, if he cheated I hope he get what he deserve, but I am just defending the statement that roids prolong your career that is crazy. Lets say he didn't take roids I still believe he would hit about 40 hr and 25 30 SB a year. I don't think he would slow down that much. When you make that decision to work out and keep in shape you do that for your future, At least I did. I workout real hard when I was in my 20'2 and now that I am pushing 35 I still look like I am in my 20's. And that goes double for professional athletes.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

I somehow doubt they had access to the same types of research, facilities, expertise and chemicals that Bonds did. Unless they were all multi-millionaire athletes.

That is a good point, but some are million dollars players. Taking roids is the fast way, but you will pay a cost. That is all I am saying. I don't think roids prolong careers. That is just my opinion, but it is true in the people I know.

People don't take roids to prolong their career, they take them to get there faster and worry about the cost later.

[BGarrett7]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Lets say he didn't take roids I still believe he would hit about 40 hr and 25 30 SB a year. I don't think he would slow down that much.

So you think Barry would still be stealing between 25-30 bases in his 40's? Hell, Rickey barely was able to pull that off. Barry had some amazing speed back in the day, but he could never come close to Henderson.

People don't take roids to prolong their career, they take them to get there faster and worry about the cost later.

And that is exactly what Barry is dealing with now. If the speculated timetable is correct, he started taking steroids when he was in his mid-30's. They appeared to be regulated and balanced properly, and he had about five productive seasons before it all crashed and burned last season.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

I somehow doubt they had access to the same types of research, facilities, expertise and chemicals that Bonds did. Unless they were all multi-millionaire athletes.

If that is the case then why are so many athletes that have taken them are not lasting to long or worst or dying, such as Ken C. I just believe they are going to destroy careers regardless of what surrounding and advantages you have!

[BGarrett7]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

If that is the case then why are so many athletes that have taken them are not lasting to long or worst or dying, such as Ken C. I just believe they are going to destroy careers regardless of what surrounding and advantages you have!

Who says that Cams was getting Grade-A stuff? If I recall correctly, everything he was taking was acquired in those "drugstores" in Mexico where a lot of amateurs in SoCal acquire their's. I hardly doubt that what he was taking during his MVP run was of the quality and had the testing put into it that Barry's BALCO supply did. We are talking very scientific stuff that he was on here, not just random bought from the trunk of some guy's car stuff that a lot of amateur lifters and high school athletes take.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

So you think Barry would still be stealing between 25-30 bases in his 40's? Hell, Rickey barely was able to pull that off. Barry had some amazing speed back in the day, but he could never come close to Henderson.

And that is exactly what Barry is dealing with now. If the speculated timetable is correct, he started taking steroids when he was in his mid-30's. They appeared to be regulated and balanced properly, and he had about five productive seasons before it all crashed and burned last season.

That has nothing to do with Bonds, I am saying it is wrong to say roids prolong your career.

Omar V is in his 38's and he had over 20 SB, so yeah I think Bonds could have about 25 to 30. If he was still in his early playing shape and had no injuries!