Official Barry Bonds Thread

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

If that is the case then why are so many athletes that have taken them are not lasting to long or worst or dying, such as Ken C. I just believe they are going to destroy careers regardless of what surrounding and advantages you have!

What Cammy took in 96 was a whole different generation of enahancement than what Bonds had access to at Balco. There is no doubt in my mind it allowed him to put up numbers he wouldn't have come close to approaching at ages 36, 37, 38, 39. To think he would have continued to be a 40/30 guy at these ages without him, is beyond drinking the kool-aide

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Who says that Cams was getting Grade-A stuff? If I recall correctly, everything he was taking was acquired in those "drugstores" in Mexico where a lot of amateurs in SoCal acquire their's. I hardly doubt that what he was taking during his MVP run was of the quality and had the testing put into it that Barry's BALCO supply did. We are talking very scientific stuff that he was on here, not just random bought from the trunk of some guy's car stuff that a lot of amateur lifters and high school athletes take.

If that is the case about Balco then why are they illegal if they are not dangerous! The truth is you will pay a cost, and more time then not that cost comes faster. That is all I am saying!

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

That has nothing to do with Bonds, I am saying it is wrong to say roids prolong your career.

Omar V is in his 38's and he had over 20 SB, so yeah I think Bonds could have about 25 to 30. If he was still in his early playing shape and had no injuries!

Considering Bonds was a 40/30 guy exactly twice in his career to begin with, I doubt he would have been at age 38.

[BGarrett7]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

If that is the case about Balco then why are they illegal if they are not dangerous!

Did I say they were not dangerous? No.

[Stu]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

If that is the case about Balco then why are they illegal if they are not dangerous! The truth is you will pay a cost, and more time then not that cost comes faster. That is all I am saying!

All your doing is twisting the argument as BK and BGarret refute your points one by one. I love how Giants fans like to use anybody else they can find as an example why steroids really didn't help Bonds play baseball, or to say that he's not the only one who took him. This thread is pure comedy.

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

All your doing is twisting the argument as BK and BGarret refute your points one by one. I love how Giants fans like to use anybody else they can find as an example why steroids really didn't help Bonds play baseball, or to say that he's not the only one who took him. This thread is pure comedy.

Exactly.

Bottomline, Barry was in my mind an all-timer and could have been remembered as one.

Instead he decided he was bigger than the game, pissed on the integrity of baseball, pissed on his own legacy, and now will be remembered as a cheater. And rightfully so.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

What Cammy took in 96 was a whole different generation of enahancement than what Bonds had access to at Balco. There is no doubt in my mind it allowed him to put up numbers he wouldn't have come close to approaching at ages 36, 37, 38, 39. To think he would have continued to be a 40/30 guy at these ages without him, is beyond drinking the kool-aide

Well we just see it different. I will say this roids do not prolong your career. But I still feel that he could have put of some solid numbers. Maybe not 40/30, so you got me there, but to say it is the roids alone I don't agree it is the many factors why Bonds has done what he has been able to do. You don't got get big and strong taking roids, you need to workout and keep in shape too. So I just don't see how roids alone help his career or prolong it when in fact in has cause him more injuries then anything, especially now. But you have some good points, and it has made me think!

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

All your doing is twisting the argument as BK and BGarret refute your points one by one. I love how Giants fans like to use anybody else they can find as an example why steroids really didn't help Bonds play baseball, or to say that he's not the only one who took him. This thread is pure comedy.

This has nothing to do with Bonds, I am talking about roids do not prolong your career, that is all I am saying, if you can't get that well, oh well. I can care less about Bonds, Sure I am Giants fan, but he is the biggest jerk I have ever met, so think what you want, but if roids prolong careers their would be a lot more older athletes!

[Stu]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Well we just see it different. I will say this roids do not prolong your career. But I still feel that he could have put of some solid numbers. Maybe not 40/30, so you got me there, but to say it is the roids alone I don't agree it is the many factors why Bonds has done what he has been able to do. You don't got get big and strong taking roids, you need to workout and keep in shape too. So I just don't see how roids alone help his career or prolong it when in fact in has cause him more injuries then anything, especially now. But you have some good points, and it has made me think!

You're completely missing the point. They didn't prolong his career, they allowed him to perform at a top level for much longer than a normal player. It's not a coincidence that he started hitting HR's at TWICE the rate of his career average the year he started taking steroids, at an age where most players start to decline. Open your eyes man.

[Stu]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

This has nothing to do with Bonds, I am talking about roids do not prolong your career, that is all I am saying, if you can't get that well, oh well. I can care less about Bonds, Sure I am Giants fan, but he is the biggest jerk I have ever met, so think what you want, but if roids prolong careers their would be a lot more older athletes!

It's not one or the other, which is the point you're failing to see. As I said in my post above, steroids allowed him to play at a higher level at an age where most athletes start to decline. They enabled him to recover quicker from injuries, but most importantly from the every day grind.

However, what we're seeing now is the consequence of prolonged steroids use. They helped him recover quickly over the years, but eventually they do start to make your body break down.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

Exactly.

Bottomline, Barry was in my mind an all-timer and could have been remembered as one.

Instead he decided he was bigger than the game, pissed on the integrity of baseball, pissed on his own legacy, and now will be remembered as a cheater. And rightfully so.

Believe it or not I agree with that, but the truth is for me I just can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing. I would like to say I wouldn't, but I just know. I had scout's look at me a lot in H.S. and college, and I wanted to go pro bad, so I can see me doing that, but I would like to think I wouldn't. When I blew out my knee in college, I was tempted, but I said that was wrong, so maybe I wouldn't, but if I was in Bonds position I just know! I know it is wrong, but I would hope I was raise right to turn away!

[Thrasha]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

I would argue that steroids do prolong your career... Maybe not in Barry's case, but I'm sure it helped him.

Barry with a pulled hamstring at the age of 40 and on steroids would recuperate much better than if he wasn't on the juice.

[BGarrett7]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

I will say this roids do not prolong your career.

Speaking in a general sense, do they, for the majority of players of any sport, prolong a career? No. Is the door wide open for exceptions, especially when using designer steroids developed by an elite staff of scientists? Definitely. Barry was already in amazing shape when this whole thing supposedly started, I would imagine that certainly assisted in how his body was able to react and adapt to what he was putting into it. A lot of those who breakdown, from looking at careers pre- and post-steroids use, are those who are far from being where Barry was physically.

But I still feel that he could have put of some solid numbers. Maybe not 40/30, so you got me there, but to say it is the roids alone I don't agree it is the many factors why Bonds has done what he has been able to do.

Barry is, was, whatever one hell of a baseball player. That is one of the reasons he was able to do what he did during that streak from '99 until two seasons ago. There is no denying that he was still a relevent and dangerous hitter before the '98 season even started, or before the whole Mac/Sosa homerun race that supposedly brought all of this on. So, yes, Barry would certainly be putting up at least productive stats, maybe even to the clip of 40 or so homers a year. Thing is, we will never know. I mean, look at what Julio Franco has been able to accomplish, and he was nowhere near the player Barry was in his prime, yet he is still being productive into his late40's.

You don't got get big and strong taking roids, you need to workout and keep in shape too.

That is very true. But what steroids do accomplish is taking someone with a sternous workout regime as Bonds, and enable them to go harder longer and to get there in a lot shorter time that it would normally take them. Yeah, I could make myself pretty freakin cut too if I went to the gym and worked out every day for years on end, but I could look even better if I were to "help" the production along a bit with a little enhancement.

So I just don't see how roids alone help his career or prolong it when in fact in has cause him more injuries then anything, especially now. But you have some good points, and it has made me think!

Did steroids help to make Barry's career longer? Honestly, I'm gonna say probably not. It's certainly not out of the realm of possibility for an elite player such as himself to play into their early, or even mid 40's. As long as he is able to keep himself in good enough shape, he could play as long as his body would allow him to. Again, I point to Julio Franco as the perfect example of this. However, what steroids did help Barry accomplish was taking him from an elite player, to a legendary player, during a stretch of his career where it would not be likely for him to accomplish that on his own. It took those seven or so years when he was on whatever it was he was taking, and it made his stats become better than they were during the prime of his career. It didn't make him a better player for an extended period of time longer than he normally would have, it made him an exceptionally better player at a point where he should have been exponentially dropping in production.

[Scottdau]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

It's not one or the other, which is the point you're failing to see. As I said in my post above, steroids allowed him to play at a higher level at an age where most athletes start to decline. They enabled him to recover quicker from injuries, but most importantly from the every day grind.

However, what we're seeing now is the consequence of prolonged steroids use. They helped him recover quickly over the years, but eventually they do start to make your body break down.

I can accept that, maybe I was reading it wrong, but I do believe roids do not prolong your career that is what I am saying! We will never know for sure what kind of numbers he would have put up if it wasn't for the roids. That is all I am saying. Sure when can make a guess, because of other players that were older. But Bonds was special, so you never know.

[bkrich83]

Re: ESPN and Bonds

. But Bonds was special, so you never know.

And because of his cheating, we never will know.