2006 All-Star Game thread

[Psyblast]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

Never mind that Hoffman has 24 saves and a 1.03 ERA this year...

[Beantown]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

...So he's discredited because he had a bad outing in the All-Star Game?

Exactly.

He sucks. Fluke. Horrible Closer. He should retire right now.

[pistonpete]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

And I guess you think this game did really matter?

it matters in the context that this game decides who has home field advantage during the WS, which is nonsensical. it matters in that as a fan of "good" baseball you think your way through the at-bat. with each batter he got burned on the same pitch; it stands to reason that you wouldn't be predictable, especially if a certain pitch is ineffective, even from batter to batter.

[Brandon13]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

it matters in the context that this game decides who has home field advantage during the WS, which is nonsensical. it matters in that as a fan of "good" baseball you think your way through the at-bat. with each batter he got burned on the same pitch; it stands to reason that you wouldn't be predictable, especially if a certain pitch is ineffective, even from batter to batter.

Just wondering, what do you think of Mariano Rivera?

[pistonpete]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

OK, I'm sure you know more about pitching than Hoffman.

i know enough to know that falling in love with a pitch and being burned three times in a row is not smart.

btw, i'm sure i know more about pitching than you do.

[Brandon13]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

i know enough to know that falling in love with a pitch and being burned three times in a row is not smart.

btw, i'm sure i know more about pitching than you do.

You probably do. But I'm not 2nd on the all time saves list.

[Easton]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

i know enough to know that falling in love with a pitch and being burned three times in a row is not smart.

btw, i'm sure i know more about pitching than you do.

I'm not sure, but I think the pitch Young hit was a fastball. Hoffman's fastball isn't overpowering. Its in the mid-80s. The changeup Glaus hit was in the 70s, and the pitch Young hit was in the mid-80s.

Having said that, he did make a mistake leaving the ball out over the plate, letting Young, an exceptional off-field hitter, drive the ball the other way. He still is #2 all time in saves, and if Buck and McCarver are correct, he also has the highest all-time save percentage. I don't care WHO you play for, you don't do that by not being one hell of a closer.

[dkgojackets]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

I cant believe were disputing over Hoffman's career after blowing a save in a worthless All-Star game.

[pistonpete]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

i just think that a large number of the saves that hoffman, isringhausen, and others get are in pseudo save situations. i was watching an interview with bob gibson about a two or three weeks ago on a local sports tv show, (in stl), and he remarked that a lot of the saves, in his opinion, are not really true save situations. yeah, they were save situations by the current standard, but he said that in many of those save situations, the middle and long relievers, as well as the set up men could have been left to go the distance. he even said it was unheard of, in his day,to be lifted in the late innings. i know to say that nobody wants to be lifted, but to me, managers do that in favor of closers a bit too prematurely. tony larussa is notorious for this. i think about lee smith too; i've been a cardinals fan since forever, and a lot of his saves were cheesy; whitey would bring him in with two outs in the ninth, and he'd get the out when the starter, setup man, etc. could have gotten the win. don't get me wrong, i don't have anything against closers, i realize the change within the game makes them necessary, but i still think, that some of their stats are inflated.

btw, my rant, which was a therapeutic release, is over.

pistonpete

[pistonpete]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

I cant believe were disputing over Hoffman's career after blowing a save in a worthless All-Star game.

there's nothing wrong with disagreeing, as long as we disagree without being disagreeable.

pistonpete

[Havok410]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

i just think that a large number of the saves that hoffman, isringhausen, and others get are in pseudo save situations. i was watching an interview with bob gibson about a two or three weeks ago on a local sports tv show, (in stl), and he remarked that a lot of the saves, in his opinion, are not really true save situations. yeah, they were save situations by the current standard, but he said that in many of those save situations, the middle and long relievers, as well as the set up men could have been left to go the distance. he even said it was unheard of, in his day,to be lifted in the late innings. i know to say that nobody wants to be lifted, but to me, managers do that in favor of closers a bit too prematurely. tony larussa is notorious for this. i think about lee smith too; i've been a cardinals fan since forever, and a lot of his saves were cheesy; whitey would bring him in with two outs in the ninth, and he'd get the out when the starter, setup man, etc. could have gotten the win. don't get me wrong, i don't have anything against closers, i realize the change within the game makes them necessary, but i still think, that some of their stats are inflated.

btw, my rant, which was a therapeutic release, is over.

pistonpete

What does that have to do with Trevor Hoffman?

Also, he is involved in a big pennant race. He's in a division where every team has a chance to win it. And he was a dominant closer on the Padres world series team as well.

[Dice]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

i just think that a large number of the saves that hoffman, isringhausen, and others get are in pseudo save situations. i was watching an interview with bob gibson about a two or three weeks ago on a local sports tv show, (in stl), and he remarked that a lot of the saves, in his opinion, are not really true save situations. yeah, they were save situations by the current standard, but he said that in many of those save situations, the middle and long relievers, as well as the set up men could have been left to go the distance. he even said it was unheard of, in his day,to be lifted in the late innings. i know to say that nobody wants to be lifted, but to me, managers do that in favor of closers a bit too prematurely. tony larussa is notorious for this. i think about lee smith too; i've been a cardinals fan since forever, and a lot of his saves were cheesy; whitey would bring him in with two outs in the ninth, and he'd get the out when the starter, setup man, etc. could have gotten the win. don't get me wrong, i don't have anything against closers, i realize the change within the game makes them necessary, but i still think, that some of their stats are inflated.

btw, my rant, which was a therapeutic release, is over.

pistonpete

I do agree with you in a sense. And I've said it on this board before...closer is the most overrated position in baseball. Not to say that they are needed BUT if you have a great team you can get by with a decent closer.

As for Hoffman, I'm not taking anything away from this guy. This guy is the 3rd best closer I've seen all time. The other two that I put ahead of him is Eckersely and Rivera. And him blowing tonights game is no reflection of his career. He's had a stellar career so far AND a great season this year.

[NYJets]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

What does that have to do with Trevor Hoffman?

That's what I'm wondering.

I agree with some of what he is saying, but why single out Hoffman. Rules are the same for every closer.

[pistonpete]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

That's what I'm wondering.

I agree with some of what he is saying, but why single out Hoffman. Rules are the same for every closer.

i didn't single out Hoffman per se. my ire was raised because i feel closers across the board are overrated. (there are some "outstanding" closers, but still feel they are overrated when compared to position players and starters). i keyed in on him only in the sense that he was the closer of note who blew the save opportunity. and while in a sense, the ASG is meaningless, i think that it is dumb to award HFA to a team solely because the league its in won the ASG. a worthless game with definite plus/minus effect for those still playing in late September/October.

[nyisles16]

Re: 2006 All-Star Game thread

had to laugh at Krucker.. after the game he was saying stuff like "you bring in a pitcher who doesnt throw strikeouts, you need your best defense out there".. while sure there was "something on the line" in the game, it's just an exhibition... good game


whats with "swift legs" Beltran all the sudden? he hasnt really done enough of that all season...