GODZILLA!!

[SportsorDeath]

Re: GODZILLA!!

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SportsorDeath- some decent points. To say that Pineiro's stuff is ordinary is totally wrong. His curve is pretty much as good as any right handed pitcher in the league today. He can locate the fastball, and he has a very polished change up. You are right Oswalt has better stuff, he is a very rare talent. Its not fair to compare anyone to Oswalt other then a guy like Pedro, those guys are just plain freaks. Yes, minute maid park seems like a disadvantage but for him it doesn't see m to affect him. He actually pitches much better at home then he does on the road. 2.80 Era to 3.30. Safeco though does help Pinerio out considerably. Safeco can kill hitters at times and Pinerio is the type that can take advantage of that fact. I think they shoud be on the same list, just not compared. Freddy has the potential to be better then Oswalt if he can keep his head on straight. Garcia should have a CY young along with Zito.

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Agreed. Good points. I overexaggerated a little when I said Pineiro's stuff is ordinary. Like you and I both stated, it is not on the level of Oswalt, but Joel does have some above average pitches, which I am pretty sure I did say in my first post about him. I have been really impressed with Pineiro actually. Every time I see him, there isn't any one thing he does that jumps out at me and makes me go "wow this guy is a stud", but he just gets it done. Put simply, the kid pitches like a 30 year old veteran. I agree with you that Garcia has better stuff, but he doesn't appear to be quite as strong mentally as Pineiro is, even at this stage of his career. I saw him get rattled a lot last year. Maybe it was because he wore down, though, who knows? He was absolutely brilliant in 2001, and even though I am an A's fan I felt, like you, that he deserved the Cy Young. He was nails for my fantasy team that year.

I have seen a couple people mention John Lackey of Anaheim as one of the top 10 under 25, but I wouldn't put him quite that high. He is pretty similar to Pineiro to me, although Joel has better stuff than Lackey. They are both extremely gutsy and poised though, and that is a big part of what being a great pitcher is about. At the end of this season, I would expect at least one of the two will jump ahead of some of the pitchers most people here have mentioned.

[keRplunK]

Re: GODZILLA!!

One rumored problem with Garcia last year was that he was tipping pitches. ( I think Anaheim found out how to read what was coming in 2002, in 2001 he was 5-0, with a 0.96 Era, in 2002 he was 2-1 with a 5.76 Era) I've watched Tape from the 2000(that was a great performance,best I've ever seen him) playoffs when he dominated the Yankees in the ALCS and compared it with his 2001 and 2002 seasons, there isn't much of a difference mechanically and pyhsically he was still throwing 93-98 pretty much the whole year. I think the problem was he wasn't throwing first pitch strikes like he was in the past year, and he depended too much on his curveball. He never had command of the changeup which is basically his best pitch. Which is also evident by his stats, 2001: 238 innings, 163 K's.....2002: 223 innings, 181 K's(in the same amount of starts) when hes using his changeup he doesn't get the strikeouts, but he gets the easy groundouts that he doesnt get as often when using only fastball, curveball. Hopefully he'll learn this, and I think Bryan Price(best pitching coach in baseball) is telling him this.


He basically lost it last year down the stretch. I mean it was funny to watch(actually it was killing me, along with the mariners) he would throw a DOMINATING inning then he would just lose it for 1 more inning give up a homerun, and he wouldn't always bounce back. Strange second half.

Lackey IMO will have a decent year. Low 4 ERA with around 200 innings. I see him more as a good number 3 starter at best. Pineiro's more of a great number 2 possibly a number 1 if he can keep improving.

[keRplunK]

Re: GODZILLA!!

One rumored problem with Garcia last year was that he was tipping pitches. ( I think Anaheim found out how to read what was coming in 2002, in 2001 he was 5-0, with a 0.96 Era, in 2002 he was 2-1 with a 5.76 Era) I've watched Tape from the 2000(that was a great performance,best I've ever seen him) playoffs when he dominated the Yankees in the ALCS and compared it with his 2001 and 2002 seasons, there isn't much of a difference mechanically and pyhsically he was still throwing 93-98 pretty much the whole year. I think the problem was he wasn't throwing first pitch strikes like he was in the past year, and he depended too much on his curveball. He never had command of the changeup which is basically his best pitch. Which is also evident by his stats, 2001: 238 innings, 163 K's.....2002: 223 innings, 181 K's(in the same amount of starts) when hes using his changeup he doesn't get the strikeouts, but he gets the easy groundouts that he doesnt get as often when using only fastball, curveball. Hopefully he'll learn this, and I think Bryan Price(best pitching coach in baseball) is telling him this.


He basically lost it last year down the stretch. I mean it was funny to watch(actually it was killing me, along with the mariners) he would throw a DOMINATING inning then he would just lose it for 1 more inning give up a homerun, and he wouldn't always bounce back. Strange second half.

Lackey IMO will have a decent year. Low 4 ERA with around 200 innings. I see him more as a good number 3 starter at best. Pineiro's more of a great number 2 possibly a number 1 if he can keep improving.