Rollins NL MVP

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

UZR has Ramirez at -20 and Rollins at -3, which sounds about right.

[daflyboys]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Playing in Colorado hurt him, but Phillies ball park is a joke too. So I think this was a bad move.

A joke because....why? Too small?? Then, that makes the triples mark on the overall 07 resume even more remarkable.

Good job JR.... you commandered your team as an MVP should.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Can we get a known non-Philly homer to defend this?

Or at least non-quantitative stats that didn't come as the result of his teammates allowing him to shatter the record for plate appearances in a season. Actually there aren't really any of those, so let's try the first option.

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Can we get a known non-Philly homer to defend this?

Or at least non-quantitative stats that didn't come as the result of his teammates allowing him to shatter the record for plate appearances in a season. Actually there aren't really any of those, so let's try the first option.

Okay, okay...I'll give you a fact...



Jimmy Rollins is the 2007 NL MVP

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Can we get a known non-Philly homer to defend this?

I guess you could call half of the MVP voters who placed him in first & se if they have some time to kill.

I don't understand why "quantitative" is a negative. And I don't get why Holliday's supporters want to completely ignore the drastic reduction in production outside Colorado. But expose & nitpick @ any "weakness" in Rollins' numbers.

Rollins made his offense go. When they had no pitching to stop anyone else. If the Phills didn't score, they didn't make the playoffs. Rollins displayed the confidence off the field & gave his teammates the confidence on it. No one in the NL combined the leadership, numbers, consistency, importance & winning better than Rollins.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

I guess you could call half of the MVP voters who placed him in first & se if they have some time to kill.

I don't understand why "quantitative" is a negative. And I don't get why Holliday's supporters want to completely ignore the drastic reduction in production outside Colorado. But expose & nitpick @ any "weakness" in Rollins' numbers.

Rollins made his offense go. When they had no pitching to stop anyone else. If the Phills didn't score, they didn't make the playoffs. Rollins displayed the confidence off the field & gave his teammates the confidence on it. No one in the NL combined the leadership, numbers, consistency, importance & winning better than Rollins.

This is the best argument I've heard so far, though the rest of the thread is trolling homers.

Holliday's splits are crazy. Looking over everything it should have been Pujols, but since this has turned into Holliday v. Rollins here you go.

Holliday played his divisional road games in big pitcher's parks. He also had the three best pitchers in the NL (by far) in his division, plus Chris Young. The top three Cy Young vote getters started a combined 15 games against Colorado. Rollins faced them twice. The four teams in Holliday's division, which he played for about half of his games, were all in the top 6 in the NL for team ERA. Rollins got to feast on Florida, who was last, and Washington, who was tenth.

I realize most people ignore this and vote based on what the media hypes, as well as team success and random subjective things as if they know what happens in the clubhouse, but its a good thing there are people who ignore the garbage and can objectively determine who was most valuable. Pujols WARP3 12.7, Holliday 11.9, Rollins 11.5.

But those numbers just tell you which player was the most valuable. I'm sure other people have different definitions for the most valuable player.

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

This is the best argument I've heard so far

That ca be said for every candidate for MVP.

But the fact remains...J-Roll is the 2007 NL MVP.

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Holliday's splits are crazy. Looking over everything it should have been Pujols, but since this has turned into Holliday v. Rollins here you go.

Holliday played his divisional road games in big pitcher's parks. He also had the three best pitchers in the NL (by far) in his division, plus Chris Young. The top three Cy Young vote getters started a combined 15 games against Colorado. Rollins faced them twice. The four teams in Holliday's division, which he played for about half of his games, were all in the top 6 in the NL for team ERA. Rollins got to feast on Florida, who was last, and Washington, who was tenth.

I realize most people ignore this and vote based on what the media hypes, as well as team success and random subjective things as if they know what happens in the clubhouse, but its a good thing there are people who ignore the garbage and can objectively determine who was most valuable. Pujols WARP3 12.7, Holliday 11.9, Rollins 11.5.

But those numbers just tell you which player was the most valuable. I'm sure other people have different definitions for the most valuable player.

So, let's see...

The last two NL MVPs didn't deserve the honor because they play in the NL East...


The voters and everyone else have no clue as to whom the real MVPs should be so they go by what they saw while watching games...


And last, but not least...dkgojackets is the
end-all-be-all when it comes to baseball.


We learn so much on OS. Great board.

[J0nnD0ugh]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

This is the best argument I've heard so far, though the rest of the thread is trolling homers.

Holliday's splits are crazy. Looking over everything it should have been Pujols, but since this has turned into Holliday v. Rollins here you go.

Holliday played his divisional road games in big pitcher's parks. He also had the three best pitchers in the NL (by far) in his division, plus Chris Young. The top three Cy Young vote getters started a combined 15 games against Colorado. Rollins faced them twice. The four teams in Holliday's division, which he played for about half of his games, were all in the top 6 in the NL for team ERA. Rollins got to feast on Florida, who was last, and Washington, who was tenth.

I realize most people ignore this and vote based on what the media hypes, as well as team success and random subjective things as if they know what happens in the clubhouse, but its a good thing there are people who ignore the garbage and can objectively determine who was most valuable. Pujols WARP3 12.7, Holliday 11.9, Rollins 11.5.

But those numbers just tell you which player was the most valuable. I'm sure other people have different definitions for the most valuable player.

Pujols? St.louis didn't even finish above .500, let alone get close in the playoff race. All of these new fangled stat catergories are not the criteria for an MVP. Math, formulas, computers cannot measure the value of a player to his team. What number can you assign Rollins telling the world "we're the team to beat in the NL East"? Its silly to judge an MVP on numbers alone.

[TwelveozPlaya21]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

next year, It will be Chase Utley's turn to win the NL MVP!!!

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

next year, It will be Chase Utley's turn to win the NL MVP!!!

He can't. He plays in the NL East...with the bad pitchers.

[chippered]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

Pujols? St.louis didn't even finish above .500, let alone get close in the playoff race. All of these new fangled stat catergories are not the criteria for an MVP. Math, formulas, computers cannot measure the value of a player to his team. What number can you assign Rollins telling the world "we're the team to beat in the NL East"? Its silly to judge an MVP on numbers alone.

Lets not get crazy with that first sentence. There is no reason that a player cant be picked from a non-winning team. A key sentence from the HOF voting instruction given to the sports writers that vote: "The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier."

By using that line of thinking, your downgrading a perhaps superior players season because he played on a crappy team. For intstance, its not Pujol's fault his teammates didnt have good seasons.

[P2K]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

A key sentence from the HOF voting instruction given to the sports writers that vote: "The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier."

Key words: need not.

But we fully know that being in the playoffs or getting seriously close is a big thing to the voters.

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

next year, It will be Chase Utley's turn to win the NL MVP!!!

Utley has a legit shot. I would have had him over Rollins this year and he probably would have won if he didn't get hurt (or at least should have won).

[dkgojackets]

Re: Rollins NL MVP

So, let's see...

The last two NL MVPs didn't deserve the honor because they play in the NL East...


The voters and everyone else have no clue as to whom the real MVPs should be so they go by what they saw while watching games...


And last, but not least...dkgojackets is the
end-all-be-all when it comes to baseball.


We learn so much on OS. Great board.

I apologize for bringing stats into a baseball discussion. I'm sure your biased eyeballing is much more reliable.