NL MVP Discussion

[btown12]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Had Howard hit .280 or better I'd say it's his award. Since we all know that didn't happen, give it to Albert.

[Skerik]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Howard should win.

Who cares what his average is - you don't drive in 146 runs unless you're getting hits when they matter. Howard's average is weighed down by the fact that he hit .196 with the bases empty. But his lowest average in any other game situation was .294, including averages of .320 and .320 with RISP and RISP with 2 outs. Hence his gaudy RBI total.

Plus he hit .352 with 11 HRs in September with his team in a playoff race down to the second-to-last day of the season. I know his detractors will merely point to his average to say he's not worthy of the MVP award, but his average doesn't tell the whole story.

[btown12]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Howard should win.

Who cares what his average is - you don't drive in 146 runs unless you're getting hits when they matter. Howard's average is weighed down by the fact that he hit .196 with the bases empty. But his lowest average in any other game situation was .294, including averages of .320 and .320 with RISP and RISP with 2 outs. Hence his gaudy RBI total.

Plus he hit .352 with 11 HRs in September with his team in a playoff race down to the second-to-last day of the season. I know his detractors will merely point to his average to say he's not worthy of the MVP award, but his average doesn't tell the whole story.

Hey I agree, I watched him all year and believe me, the average and strikeouts mean nothing to me. If the guy flew out to CF as many times as he struck out it would be the same end result but no one would harp on it. The guy was clutch when it mattered and lead the league in HR and RBI's, very important factors when determining an MVP. My statement was more a reflection of how I think the voting will go, not necessarily my own opinion.

[dkgojackets]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Howard should win.

Who cares what his average is - you don't drive in 146 runs unless you're getting hits when they matter. Howard's average is weighed down by the fact that he hit .196 with the bases empty. But his lowest average in any other game situation was .294, including averages of .320 and .320 with RISP and RISP with 2 outs. Hence his gaudy RBI total.

Plus he hit .352 with 11 HRs in September with his team in a playoff race down to the second-to-last day of the season. I know his detractors will merely point to his average to say he's not worthy of the MVP award, but his average doesn't tell the whole story.

I don't care about his average (in any situation) or strikeouts, what brings him down is being ninth among NL first basemen in OBP and the fact that there's a player at the same position who plays much better defense that leads him by 225 points of OPS. There's quite a few guys who you can put in Howard's spot with his lineup in that ballpark who can rack up rbis and such.

Utley was the most valuable Philly by far. I know people just pick their favorite player from their favorite team but if you want a legit top 5 candidate I would get behind him.

[dalnet22]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

I'm still going with Manny.

[Skerik]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

I don't care about his average (in any situation) or strikeouts, what brings him down is being ninth among NL first basemen in OBP and the fact that there's a player at the same position who plays much better defense that leads him by 225 points of OPS.

It's the MVP award. Not the "best player" award. If it were the latter, Pujols would have won it for like 5 straight seasons.

Ryan Ludwick, Adam Dunn and Andre Ethier all have better OPS numbers than Howard. Where do you see them finishing in the MVP voting?

[dkgojackets]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

It's the MVP award. Not the "best player" award. If it were the latter, Pujols would have won it for like 5 straight seasons.

Ryan Ludwick, Adam Dunn and Andre Ethier all have better OPS numbers than Howard. Where do you see them finishing in the MVP voting?

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

Where in these guidelines do you see something about "good player who is below average all year but good in september and makes the playoffs because the mets choke again"

BBWAA even specifically defines value in voting rule #1 since they knew the first clause left a lot to interpretation, but for whatever reason people keep changing it to anything and everything that supports their guy. How is Howard a better choice than Pujols using those criteria for the award? You've admitted that Pujols is the best player. Does best player not = "strongest offense and defense"?

[Misfit]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

CC shouldn't win the Cy Young, as he didn't pitch enough in the NL to justify being the best NL pitcher. However, he should be the MVP. Without him, the Brewers are likely ten games out of the playoff picture. Not only did he win damn near every game he pitched, but he really added a spark to this team. I can't think of one player in baseball who had a greater impact on their team than CC this year.

Manny Ramirez?

If this award were to be awarded to the player that had the most value to his team and was the clear-cut difference maker in getting his team to the Playoffs then Manny is the MVP. I think it's hard to vote for a guy though that only played two months in the NL and was only traded to the Dodgers because another team thought it was better without him.

I think the MVP should be on a Playoff team, but shouldn't be someone who gets rewarded on the basis of a strong finish. If I had a vote I would go with Pujols. His team was in contention for much of the season with next to nothing around him. He was without a doubt the best player in the NL this season and there just isn't a good option on any of the Playoff teams.

[snepp]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Holy homerism.

That is all.

[Brandon13]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

If Howard had hit well early in the season the Phils would've ran away with the division. Hitting well in July and September doesn't do enough to negate not hitting well in every other month. If Pujols doesn't win it's robbery.

[JBH3]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Since I see DK in here, and I can't resist I'm going to say co-MVP...Howard AND Utley...Shoot let's just throw J-Roll in there for 'ol times sake.

:wink:

[dkgojackets]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

FWIW if it werent for Pujols having the best year of his career utley would not be a bad choice.

[jake44np]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Ryan Howard is going to win NL MVP, only Phillies are allowed to win! lol

[steveeee]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

the best player provides the most value to his team

and Pujols is the best player in the league in 2008

simple..

[Stroehms]

Re: NL MVP Discussion

Albert Pujols. Hands down. Don't even mention Howard in the same breath as Pujols. Sure you can have huge Septembers. Ryan Howard and Chase Utely are both 1 year older than Pujols.

Pujols- 2 NL championships. 1 WS title. 1 Batting Title. Has never batted under .323 for a season. 1 MVP (Should be at least 3 maybe 4 because of Bonds)

Utely + Howard - 2 HR titles. 0 NL championships. 0 batting titles. 1 MVP. 0 WS

Pujols has outshined them in every category and he's younger! He's produced twice the amount of 2 young stars in the same amount of time.