Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Learning sabermetrics >>> coming off as Joe Morgan.

Seriously, if you can't even take the time to figure out the concepts behind UZR/FIP/VORP, etc., then it's pointless even debating this with you.

UZR is basically how good a player's range is.
FIP determines how good a pitcher is by only looking at the things he controls.
VORP measures the offensive value of a player.

I imagine you're somewhat educated, so these concepts shouldn't be too difficult to grasp. I wasn't really into sabermetrics until a year ago and it didn't take me that long to understand or be intrigued by them.

Shed the ignorance. Don't eschew things just because they appear to be "ZOMG SCARY AND WEIRD!!!!" The day that baseball fans realize that sabermetrics aren't only the stuff of geeks will be a great day for baseball.

I understand sabermetrics, no problem. I just like riling you guys up a bit...Being told how good your cause is (for understanding more than RBI and HR's) brings a tear to my eye. There's no debate to be had, I just will never accept the fact that I need xFIP to tell me a sinker ball pitcher blows when his ball doesn't sink.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

There's no debate to be had, I just will never accept the fact that I need xFIP to tell me a sinker ball pitcher blows when his ball doesn't sink.

I don't need batting average, HRs, or RBIs to tell me Albert Pujols is a ridiculously good hitter. I also don't need the standings to tell me the Yankees are better than the Royals. Abolish the standings!

And if you want to make fun of a stat, you don't even have to look past the traditional ones. Take batting average for example. Walks, HBPs, and sac flys/bunts don't count against your average, yet errors do, since they're counted as outs.

Huh? That definitely deserves more ridicule than xFIP.

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Walks, HBPs, and sac flys/bunts don't count against your average, yet errors do, since they're counted as outs.

Huh? That definitely deserves more ridicule than xFIP.

You're going off on a tangent here...xFIP doesn't even compare to the likes of Walks, HBPs and sac flys. They actual have a purpose in telling detailing the final picture(like it or not) xFIP doesn't, its just a prediction, a guess!

And I do agree that BA is extremely overrated as a stat. But I need my RBI's and HRs for fantasy baseball

But really, I can't stand the smugness of it(shown by a certain poster here, no names and not you)

"Oh I can't believe they traded player x for player y! He's terrible for them!" - Dozens of stats thrown my way.

*player y has great season*

"Fluke! He'll normalize..." -Throws more stats at you.

Its like when people join an organization for the good of something else...And someone comes along beating their chest as the better member. Those are stat-heads, to me. It's not ignorance, just look at the way the well known ones act when they find out certain teams don't use advanced stats.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

You're going off on a tangent here...xFIP doesn't even compare to the likes of Walks, HBPs and sac flys. They actual have a purpose in telling detailing the final picture(like it or not) xFIP doesn't, its just a prediction, a guess!

Huh? I wasn't comparing walks, HBPs, and sac flys (all of which are totally useless, especially the latter 2, when standing alone) to xFIP.

My point is that there are a ton of traditional stats out there which the non-sabermetrically-inclined people can make fun of since the calculations are either asinine (batting average) or they lead to wildly inaccurate conclusions (Ws/Ls for pitchers). Instead, they choose to make fun of things that they don't understand.

And I do agree that BA is extremely overrated as a stat. But I need my RBI's and HRs for fantasy baseball

BA is fine as long as it's used in context. Generally, I'll post BA along with OBP and SLG to see if the BA is relevant to the player's performance.

But really, I can't stand the smugness of it(shown by a certain poster here, no names and not you)

"Oh I can't believe they traded player x for player y! He's terrible for them!" - Dozens of stats thrown my way.

*player y has great season*

"Fluke! He'll normalize..." -Throws more stats at you.

Its like when people join an organization for the good of something else...And someone comes along beating their chest as the better member. Those are stat-heads, to me. It's not ignorance, just look at the way the well known ones act when they find out certain teams don't use advanced stats.

Then hate him for being smug, not because he used perfectly legitimate statistics to counter your argument.

[Shakedowncapo]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

I don't find predictions to be "legitimate"..

[rsox]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Message to Joe Torre:

It's time to put down the dog known as Garrett Anderson. -13.4 runs in 157 PAs and a .493 OPS is a whole new level of awful.

Well unfortunately the guy they are paying $20 million dollars to play LF can't seem to stay on the field so they have to put someone there. I think the addition of Podsednik should cut Anderson's playing time quite a bit.

[Sandman42]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

On PTI today, Kornheiser said that if ARod were placed on waivers all 29 other teams would claim him.

Yeah, because everyone wants to be paying him $25M+ for the next 7 years.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

No long JoeChat breakdown today, but there was some terrific JoeBaiting, especially from Tito in Brooklyn:

"Joe, how much prep work do you put in before a broadcast of a game for ESPN?"

Joe Morgan: None. ****ing nada, which is why I'm rarely able to answer baseball questions with specifics and why I repeat the word consistency over and over as if it were all-encompassing.

He didn't actually say that, but wouldn't it have been awesome if he did? His real answer:

"I'm a fan all during the week. I'm sitting here reading the box scores and reading about all the teams and not just the two on Sunday. I'm a fan first. I read the box scores like anyone else. As we get closer to the game, I'll watch their game on Friday, so I can see how they're doing with my own eyes. Then I watch what happens on Saturday while traveling to the game. Then I narrow it down to a couple of individuals on the team to watch, who is hot and who is not."

He reads the box scores. Hmmm, I thought you have to SEE EVERYTHING WITH YOUR OWN TWO EYES, Joe?

"Who is the best manager in the NL out of the current playoff teams?

Joe Morgan: A few years ago, I wrote a book and listed my top 5 managers: Dusty Baker, Bobby Cox, Joe Torre, Tony LaRusa and I think the fifth was Cito Gaston. So, in the NL, Baker, Cox and Torre are the best managers.

Torre's team is currently in 4th place.

Joe Morgan .23 seconds later: Along with Tony LaRusa.

Joe's Brain in super-fast processing mode: Oh yeah. Don't forget the guy whose team currently wouldn't make the playoffs if they started today!!!
__________________________________________________ _______________________

Tito again: Props to him for asking Joe a question with a qualifier in it. I wonder if Joe will ever realize that he's having cynical conversations (for the most part) with these people.

"Joe do you think Joey Votto is the MVP of the NL right now?"

Joe Morgan: No. I think it's yet to be decided who's the MVP of the NL. We don't know what Pujols will do down the stretch. The MVP is always Pujols' to lose. If he gets hot and leads the Cardinals to the division and the playoffs, he wins it. But Votto could do the same. It's too early to tell.

I can almost imagine the conversation Joe Morgan had with the ESPN higher-ups responsible for interviewing and assessing the qualifications of broadcasting candidates. It probably went as follows:

ESPN interviewer: "Joe, do you think you're qualified to handle the role of ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball color commentator, RIGHT NOW?"

Joe Morgan: "No, I think it's too early to tell."

ESPN interview: "Awesome!!!! Welcome to ESPN."

[rsox]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

On PTI today, Kornheiser said that if ARod were placed on waivers all 29 other teams would claim him.

Yeah, because everyone wants to be paying him $25M+ for the next 7 years.

Yeah...i don't think we'll be seeing Arod in a Pirates uniform any time soon.

Actually for all we know Rodriguez may be on waivers now. At this time of year just about everyone is put on waivers, we just usually don't here about it because most players either go unclaimed or get pulled back by their team. But yeah, Kornheiser is exaggerating a bit by saying all 29 other teams would claim him.

[ryan36]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Yeah...i don't think we'll be seeing Arod in a Pirates uniform any time soon.

Actually for all we know Rodriguez may be on waivers now. At this time of year just about everyone is put on waivers, we just usually don't here about it because most players either go unclaimed or get pulled back by their team. But yeah, Kornheiser is exaggerating a bit by saying all 29 other teams would claim him.

I'm assuming the Yankees would pull him back, but it'd be awesome to see the M's claim him. LOL...I do think you can make an argument that he does help pay for himself with production, and butts in the seats. Not 25m worth, but still

[Speedy]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Who would put a claim on A-Rod with the amount of money still owed to him? Way more risk than reward IMO.

[NYJets]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Nobody would claim him. The Yankees paid him way more than anyone was offering after he opted out. And that was when he was coming off an MVP season, and before it was known he took steroids.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Patrick O'Neill, Dodgers' post-game reporter, recapping Ubaldo Jimenez's start: "Hard to argue against Jimenez and his 17-2 record when you talk about the NL Cy Young award race."

Ugh. Unfortunately, it's Jimenez's award to lose given his W/L record and the BBWAA's inability to see past that.

[rsox]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

Strong finishes by Roy Halladay or Josh Johnson could give Jimenez competition for the award.

[imapotato]

Re: Dusty Baker (and other assorted morons)

http://www.fangraphs.com/

Feel the knowledge. Feel the power. Do not be Joe Blow any more.

I don't know what the biggest turnoff is

1) I played in the minors, so I know baseball
2) The hubris and smugness of sabergeeks
3) The cult mentality of reading something on one site so it MUST be true

I like being Joe Blow

oh and the moron that this thread is about, has his team in first place