Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

[Coug00]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

I think Branyon gets a pass because...

A) He's in Seattle and it might as well be Egypt for the big media sites
B) With the Brewers last year he started some eye test and strengthening program and his contact rates have soared ever since then. Plus, how can you not hammer the ball with great protection behind you like Mike Sweeney and Griffey Jr.

Reading into the situation I think a guy like Rosenthal is either an elitest MSM blowhard and/or, like most of the MSM, threatened by the ever growing blogosphere around the nation. That was a pretty big soapbox he was on talking about MSM and how they hold themselves to higher standards...yet, just in the last year I've read two articles from his colleagues at ESPN (and I read their crap extremely infrequently) accusing players of using PED's w/o a single shred of evidence (Simmons and Reilly).

I think Raul is clean and glad he protected himself, but his reaction to the whole thing blew it out of proportion. He seems like a nice, mild mannered guy, but whenever he gets questioned publicly and has platform to respond he tends to let loose like this.

[snepp]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

What pisses me off about this is the people getting all worked up apparently didn't read the actual article that was written. The supposed "accusation" was nothing more than acknowledging its potential existence, after spending a couple thousand words trying to prove it wasn't something steroid related.

The "mass media" can go **** itself on this, they're the douchebags here.

[SPTO]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Which is a good point...

I mean out of his 20 HRs, 8 have come at home, and 6 against Washington.

Yep, but to those not in the know the steroid talk at the very least is somewhat understandable if a bit misguided. I think one reason and Coug acknowledged this when talking about Branyon is that Ibanez played in Seattle for the last little while so no one really knew how good of a hitter he is. The power is a bit puzzling but seeing where the bulk of his HRs are coming at it's not surprising.

It's not like JROD's original article stated outright that he thinks Ibanez is juicing it's the media making a mountain out of a molehill.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Yep, but to those not in the know the steroid talk at the very least is somewhat understandable if a bit misguided. I think one reason and Coug acknowledged this when talking about Branyon is that Ibanez played in Seattle for the last little while so no one really knew how good of a hitter he is. The power is a bit puzzling but seeing where the bulk of his HRs are coming at it's not surprising.

It's not like JROD's original article stated outright that he thinks Ibanez is juicing it's the media making a mountain out of a molehill.

lol...exactly. He actually said exactly the opposite. And snepp is spot on as well (even on the d-bags portion)

[steelcurtain311]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Athletes in general despise bloggers, in which I really can't blame them too much. Buzz Bissinger was pretty funny and vocal about this blogging era we live in on Costas Now one night.

It's pretty simple what's going on with Ibanez, and that's playing in Philly, and playing in that lineup. It can inflate the stats of anyone. Look at Aaron Rowand.

[snepp]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Buzz was vocal yes, but hardly funny. In fact it was one of the most egotistical, immature, and pathetic sights I have ever witnessed. Costas' behavior was equally abhorrent.

[rsox]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Ibanez has every reason to be upset, no one likes to be accused of things they did not do and the blogger has no proof of any cheating by Ibanez.
However i think he took it a little far with the whole "you can have my urine, my hair (which by the way, he doesn't have), my blood, my stool--anything you can test" comment. Sammy Sosa said kind of the same thing but when Rick Reilly called him on it he was not willing to go do a blood test, that is not say that Raul wouldn't but... .And to be fair to Ibanez he has not failed any tests that we know of.

The flip side of this of course is that with the Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez bombshells this year it would be naive not to suspect Ibanez. It would be naive not to suspect everyone from David Aardsma to Joel Zumaya and Raul should understand that.

[snepp]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Ibanez has every reason to be upset, no one likes to be accused of things they did not do and the blogger has no proof of any cheating by Ibanez.

Didn't read the article did you?

[Scottdau]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

It is not steroids it is called playing in that joke of a park in Philly. You hit a fly ball and it has a damn good chance of going out. Unless he hit all those HR's on the road?

[rsox]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Reading the blog it still sounds like a lawyer trying to prosecute and defend the same client at the same time.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Reading the blog it still sounds like a lawyer trying to prosecute and defend the same client at the same time.

That was kind of the point, as I don't think he's doing either. He basically started out trying to defend him and realized that under the current cloud of suspicion, it's nearly impossible to do. That was the main message, as I understood it...the unfortunate situation MLB has caused with their actions (or lack of action). the point being, that nowadays, the way this has all played out, everyone is a suspect...fair or unfair (the guy even openly admitted it wasn't fair to Ibanez personally).

Plus, it's still important to remember that this is a blog, not a paid, regular column. None of this gets to the level it did if a "professional" journalist isn't cruising blogs looking for stories. Couple that with Rosenthal's hypocrisy (he even admitted as much and waffled a bit when questioned on Mike and Mike).

I can promise you that neither of these "honorable" journalist would be so daring if it were a colleague who wrote something similar. Buster Olney and other "professionals" have done the SAME EXACT THING in openly speculating that Ortiz's production has declined due to suspending use of performance enhancers.

And I agree that Ibanez has every right to be upset, and that the writer probably didn't realize that it would get to the level it did. The same conversation occurs daily on this message board though and amounts to the same if a journalist chooses to write about what he reads here.

I personally think that's more an indictment of where journalism is headed (as I said, far too many "pros" cruising blogs, citing them as sources, etc) than the state of this individual's "personal integrity" as some mainstream media have implied.

[sportsdude]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

I'm going to weigh in, and I have a feeling what I say won't be popular with most of the people in this thread.

There is a difference between making a relative point and being fair. Jrod's original story/post (whatever you want to call it) was full of good points but that does not mean it was fair. If he wanted to look at this issue, why would he not look at other players with similar statistical variations? Why did he just choose Ibanez? That's not fair. Ibanez is not the only player to come out and have great offensive production in the first part of the season. Where was JRod's speculation about Ian Kinsler after he exploded out of the gates? Why did he feel the need to limit such a polarizing issue to just one of the thousands of MLB players?

JRod says he never said Ibanez used PEDs and even said he thinks Ibanez is clean. But Jrod also said it's fair that there is speculation that Ibanez used PEDs, which is a fair statement in itself. However, where is that speculation coming from? Did Jrod talk to (unamed or named) ballplayers, coaches, front office types or even Joe Fan? No. The only connection he makes is that somebody in his fantasy baseball league brought up the same issue. Well then that speculation comes back to the author because it has to be attributed to somebody. People speculate, objects do not and thus since there is no attribution in the story/post it is on the author himself.

In a later story/post JRod makes reference to the Sports Illustrated story on Albert Pujols and wonders how that is different than his original story/post. Well, the intentions behind the idea are the same. The similarities end there, however. The SI piece has legitimate sources and places the story in the people involved in the league itself. JRod's does not.

I agree with Rosenthal when he says site like MSF need to be held to higher standards. I don't think that means they need to be on par with the same standards as institutions such as the NY Times, Washington Post or SI but blogs are no longer things read by a few people.

Now, having said all that, I think a lot of what is going on is overreaction. I think Gonzalez overreacted to JRod's first story/post, Ibanez overreacted to Gonzalez's story and Rosenthal overreacted to everything. I thought Rosenthal and Gonzalez came way too hard at JRod in the OTL piece and did not give him a fair chance for his take. Also, I thought JRod did well considering he was on TV and against two people who interview professional athletes on a daily basis for their jobs. It would've been real easy for JRod to fold like a lawn chair under that scrutiny but he stuck to his guns and what he believes, and that is to be commended.

Agree or disagree, this is how I feel.

[JBH3]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

There is a difference between making a relative point and being fair. Jrod's original story/post (whatever you want to call it) was full of good points but that does not mean it was fair. If he wanted to look at this issue, why would he not look at other players with similar statistical variations? Why did he just choose Ibanez? That's not fair. Ibanez is not the only player to come out and have great offensive production in the first part of the season. Where was JRod's speculation about Ian Kinsler after he exploded out of the gates? Why did he feel the need to limit such a polarizing issue to just one of the thousands of MLB players?

The point of singling Ibanez out is a good one.

Where's the speculation on Adrian Gonzalez?

I mean his best statistical year was last year, and THEN he only hit 22 HRs pre-ASB and 14 in Petco pre-ASB.

He already has 22 HRs thru June 11th this year, and is one better at Petco w/ 15 already.

Where's the PED speculation on Gonzalez?

I guess since he's 27 he gets a freepass since we can file his production under improving/reaching potential. However, to completely shatter his numbers and pace of last year, and to do it in a place like Petco at that we can easily speculate on him too.

I mean if you're going to go after Ibanez then you might as well go after every single player playing over their heads so to speak.

Where's the Nelson Cruz PED speculation? I mean he plays in Texas of all places, a highly rabid PED spawn point.

JRod is a Mets fan right?

EDIT: I mean I guess what I'm trying to say is where does it stop?

Any player off to a hot start or having a career year is now punished because of PED speculation, or assumed to be juicing. I say why fuel the speculation.

Sure, you can fall back on MLB not taking care of it when they should of, but now there's testing in place and we should just leave it to that.

[Jackdog]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Last two posts were stellar. Good points. Good civil debate.

[yvesdereuter]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Oh the hypocrisy. If John Gonzalez and Ken Rosenthal don't decide to make the blog world a news story and a topic source, then none of this escalates. Maybe I'll "blog" on how rediculous it is that major media outlets actually cite blogs as reference and scour them to come up with a story.

I can go find a blog that speculates on the sexual preference of any hollywood star, their secret drug addictions, etc. Amazing that some joe with a blog takes more heat for a lack of "journalistic integrity" than actual major media outlets...lol.

It makes for an interesting read though. Watching the comments degrade into mindless insults being slung back and forth was entertaining.

Indeed. Awesome point.