Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

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  • SoxFan01605
    All Star
    • Jan 2008
    • 7982

    #31
    Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

    I don't disagree. In fact, he even said it wasn't fair to Ibanez. The thing is, the blog was born of a conversation he had with someone about whether or not Ibanez was juicing, NOT on the overall state of steroids in baseball and who is/isn't juicing. It lead to the overarching issue based on his look into it. It's a fine line, and I can see both sides of this.

    I think the "why wasn't so and so" comments counter the point of whether or not it's fair though. You can't say it's unfair to openly wonder about Ibanez and then counter it with openly wondering about another specific player. Just my opinion, of course, but it doesn't really fit the point.

    On the blog itself, I'm fairly neutral. I certainly think far too many people who use the internet irresponsibly and probably don't fully think out the potential consequences. I'm willing to bet that if the writer had it all to do over again, he probably would have chosen his words more carefully.

    My issue lies with the hypocrisy in the outrage over it. It's hard to cry foul on standards of ethics in blog writing when journalists ignore them themselves. As I said earlier, Buster Olney (a colleague of Rosenthal) made similar speculation over Ortiz in an ESPN column. where's the ourtrage over that? The sports blogging/message board community is full of such debate. Heck, we had our own "who's juicing" type threads.

    It simply became a case of those condemning the blog, making things worse than they need to be. It's unfortunate because in their little crusade against the evil blogger (and make no mistake, journalists take issue with "amateur" blogging in general) the only one impacted negatively is Ibanez. Instead of maybe a few hundered people reading a run-of-the-mill internet site, it became front-page nonsense for ESPN.

    Anyway, my rants against modern journalists and their hypocrisy aside (), I certainly can agree that Ibanez has every right to be upset. I can also see why some fans would be as well. I really don't care either way , I just don't lack the lack of consistency in such arguments.

    EDIT: And I appreciate the fact that thus far, despite varying viewpoints on this, people have expressed their thoughts rationally.
    Last edited by SoxFan01605; 06-11-2009, 08:49 PM.

    Comment

    • JBH3
      Marvel's Finest
      • Jan 2007
      • 13506

      #32
      Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

      Raul cracked a 3r HR in the top of the 10th tonight...I credit that to JRod.
      Originally posted by Edmund Burke
      All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

      Comment

      • SoxFan01605
        All Star
        • Jan 2008
        • 7982

        #33
        Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

        Originally posted by JBH3
        Raul cracked a 3r HR in the top of the 10th tonight...I credit that to JRod.
        lol...extra motivation?

        I'm sure Philly fans are all for it!


        (actually, I am too...he's on my fantasy team)

        Comment

        • duke776
          MVP
          • Nov 2006
          • 3044

          #34
          Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

          Originally posted by JBH3
          He already has 22 HRs thru June 11th this year, and is one better at Petco w/ 15 already.
          He only has 7 at Petco, 15 of his have come on the road.

          But I agree with you said here:

          I mean I guess what I'm trying to say is where does it stop?

          Any player off to a hot start or having a career year is now punished because of PED speculation, or assumed to be juicing. I say why fuel the speculation.

          Sure, you can fall back on MLB not taking care of it when they should of, but now there's testing in place and we should just leave it to that.

          Comment

          • J0nnD0ugh
            Hall Of Fame
            • Feb 2003
            • 16602

            #35
            Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

            The "why doesn't he go after ___" argument is cheap. Who's to say he won't look @ others' stats later? If he looked @ a 100 ballplayers, people will complain he didn't compare the 101st. Jrod wasn't picking on Ibanez in the least. He wasn't looking for a smoking gun. & he never claimed Ibanez juiced up. All he said was stats couldn't disprove or prove it. In a nutshell, he wrote an interesting piece just to say "I don't know". Why is that a crime?
            Originally posted by VP Richard M. Nixon
            I always remember that whatever I have done in the past, or may do in the future, Duke University is responsible one way or the other.
            -August 17, 1960
            Thanks, dookies!

            Comment

            • BunnyHardaway
              Banned
              • Nov 2004
              • 15195

              #36
              Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

              I think it's sad that people immediately jump to "oh, he's on steroids" instead of actually reasoning with it and saying "well, here's a good hitter that is not only red hot but moved from a well-known pitchers park to an extreme hitters park".

              I don't see anything wrong with the blog.

              Comment

              • DrJones
                All Star
                • Mar 2003
                • 9109

                #37
                Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                Originally posted by JBH3
                The point of singling Ibanez out is a good one.

                Where's the speculation on Adrian Gonzalez?

                I mean his best statistical year was last year, and THEN he only hit 22 HRs pre-ASB and 14 in Petco pre-ASB.

                He already has 22 HRs thru June 11th this year, and is one better at Petco w/ 15 already.

                Where's the PED speculation on Gonzalez?

                I guess since he's 27 he gets a freepass since we can file his production under improving/reaching potential. However, to completely shatter his numbers and pace of last year, and to do it in a place like Petco at that we can easily speculate on him too.

                I mean if you're going to go after Ibanez then you might as well go after every single player playing over their heads so to speak.

                Where's the Nelson Cruz PED speculation? I mean he plays in Texas of all places, a highly rabid PED spawn point.

                JRod is a Mets fan right?

                EDIT: I mean I guess what I'm trying to say is where does it stop?

                Any player off to a hot start or having a career year is now punished because of PED speculation, or assumed to be juicing. I say why fuel the speculation.

                Sure, you can fall back on MLB not taking care of it when they should of, but now there's testing in place and we should just leave it to that.
                There's a huge difference between having a career year at 27 or 37. As far as "there's testing in place and we should just leave it to that", if MLB's testing were as stringent as say, the IOC, I would agree. Considering there's at least circumstantial evidence to support that members of the MLBPA tipped off ARod about a drug test a couple seasons ago (and does anyone really believe that Manny never took a banned substance before this season?), I'm not prepared to say that MLB's testing policy is anywhere near foolproof.

                The strange thing about all this is that members of the "mainstream" media have been implying for weeks that Big Papi's struggles could be a result of him being off the juice. I'd say Bill Simmons went further in his article on Ortiz a couple weeks back than JRod did about Ibanez, and his influence is a helluva lot bigger than JRod's. Where's the outrage there? Sounds to me like the Philadelphia Inquirer was trying to stir up trouble and that Ibanez is thin-skinned.
                Originally posted by Thrash13
                Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                Originally posted by slickdtc
                DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                Originally posted by Kipnis22
                yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                Comment

                • DrJones
                  All Star
                  • Mar 2003
                  • 9109

                  #38
                  Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                  Originally posted by JJLinn
                  I think it's sad that people immediately jump to "oh, he's on steroids" instead of actually reasoning with it and saying "well, here's a good hitter that is not only red hot but moved from a well-known pitchers park to an extreme hitters park".

                  I don't see anything wrong with the blog.
                  It is sad, and it's the fault of MLB and the MLBPA.
                  Originally posted by Thrash13
                  Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                  Originally posted by slickdtc
                  DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                  Originally posted by Kipnis22
                  yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                  Comment

                  • JBH3
                    Marvel's Finest
                    • Jan 2007
                    • 13506

                    #39
                    Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                    Originally posted by duke776
                    He only has 7 at Petco, 15 of his have come on the road.

                    But I agree with you said here:

                    Yea...It's 15 rbi he has at Petco, not HRs thus far.

                    With that said, he's still at half the amount he hit at Petco all of last year. :wink:

                    Originally posted by J0nnD0ugh
                    The "why doesn't he go after ___" argument is cheap. Who's to say he won't look @ others' stats later? If he looked @ a 100 ballplayers, people will complain he didn't compare the 101st. Jrod wasn't picking on Ibanez in the least. He wasn't looking for a smoking gun. & he never claimed Ibanez juiced up. All he said was stats couldn't disprove or prove it. In a nutshell, he wrote an interesting piece just to say "I don't know". Why is that a crime?
                    Not IMO...which I'm entitiled to.

                    There's no crime in it, I'd rather go by innocent until prove guilty. JRod IS a Mets fan right?



                    Originally posted by DrJones
                    There's a huge difference between having a career year at 27 or 37.
                    Well what about the year Ibanez had in 2006, it was a career year for him @ 34, and he hit 33 HRs - 20 pre ASB.

                    Let's speculate he was on PEDs then too. He did hit over half those HRs @ SafeCo...impossible...impossible I tell you.

                    Point of the matter is, where does it stop?

                    We can hide behind MLB allowing it to happen, and basically say "Well MLB you MADE me write my blog thanks to your lackadaisical testing policies".

                    IMO it starts with us. So that means no speculating on Ortiz, Ibanez, Gonzalez, Cruz, whomever...If they'e using let it come out via a positive test.

                    Why insist on being a killjoy?
                    Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                    All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                    Comment

                    • J0nnD0ugh
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Feb 2003
                      • 16602

                      #40
                      Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                      Originally posted by JBH3
                      Not IMO...which I'm entitiled to.

                      There's no crime in it, I'd rather go by innocent until prove guilty. JRod IS a Mets fan right?


                      You're entitled, I'm entitled. The argument is cheap. Did he offer his opinion? No, he offered facts. He put out his research for anyone to see, anyone to find fault w/. All you're doing is attacking the debater, not the debate. Who he is has nothing to do w/the info he put out. If he's wrong, it should be found in the data. Not in the person.
                      Originally posted by VP Richard M. Nixon
                      I always remember that whatever I have done in the past, or may do in the future, Duke University is responsible one way or the other.
                      -August 17, 1960
                      Thanks, dookies!

                      Comment

                      • JBH3
                        Marvel's Finest
                        • Jan 2007
                        • 13506

                        #41
                        Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                        Originally posted by J0nnD0ugh
                        You're entitled, I'm entitled. The argument is cheap. Did he offer his opinion? No, he offered facts. He put out his research for anyone to see, anyone to find fault w/. All you're doing is attacking the debater, not the debate. Who he is has nothing to do w/the info he put out. If he's wrong, it should be found in the data. Not in the person.
                        He offered FACT on a player having a career year. PEDs and Raul Ibanez...no facts there...just speculation. Speculation...Why? Because he's a jaded baseball fan?

                        For any player I'd rather we let them play, and accomplish their feats under the assumption of "innocent until proven guilty".
                        Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                        All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                        Comment

                        • DrJones
                          All Star
                          • Mar 2003
                          • 9109

                          #42
                          Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                          Originally posted by JBH3
                          He offered FACT on a player having a career year. PEDs and Raul Ibanez...no facts there...just speculation. Speculation...Why? Because he's a jaded baseball fan?

                          For any player I'd rather we let them play, and accomplish their feats under the assumption of "innocent until proven guilty".
                          If you want to, fine. Considering we're not in a court of law, it's absolutely fair for the rest of us to speculate.
                          Originally posted by Thrash13
                          Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                          Originally posted by slickdtc
                          DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                          Originally posted by Kipnis22
                          yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                          Comment

                          • JBH3
                            Marvel's Finest
                            • Jan 2007
                            • 13506

                            #43
                            Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                            Originally posted by DrJones
                            If you want to, fine. Considering we're not in a court of law, it's absolutely fair for the rest of us to speculate.
                            Speculating is fine, when it's defamatory to one's character is where I believe it crosses the line. Raul obviously felt that way.

                            I'm not that jaded or feel wronged by baseball that I now have to consider everyone a juicer. Big Papi falls into a misreable slump...juicer. Raul Ibanez @ 37 is having a monster year...juicer.

                            If it comes out that both were using then I'll be mad, and have my opinion of them then...until that I'd like to enjoy Raul's current success w/o the lashes from unhappy Mets fans...:wink:
                            Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                            All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                            Comment

                            • Coug00
                              LOB
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 3476

                              #44
                              Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                              Originally posted by JBH3
                              Speculating is fine, when it's defamatory to one's character is where I believe it crosses the line. Raul obviously felt that way.
                              I searched up and down JRod's post and didn't find a single defamatory comment about Ibanez.

                              And what I find ironic is that this is the second time in the last 3 months that I've seen Raul regard baseball bloggers as "45 year olds living in their mother's basement".
                              Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                              Comment

                              • JBH3
                                Marvel's Finest
                                • Jan 2007
                                • 13506

                                #45
                                Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

                                Originally posted by Coug00
                                I searched up and down JRod's post and didn't find a single defamatory comment about Ibanez.

                                And what I find ironic is that this is the second time in the last 3 months that I've seen Raul regard baseball bloggers as "45 year olds living in their mother's basement".
                                Mentioning his name in a sentence w/ PEDs...Not defamatory?
                                Originally posted by Edmund Burke
                                All that is needed for the triumph of evil, is for good men to do nothing.

                                Comment

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