Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

[The C]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Am I the only one who looks at one year jumps as just flukes and unlikely to continue?

[P2K]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

I'd also like to state how little I believe in ballpark figures. Why is Citizen's Bank so much better of a pitchers park now than what it was? Is it because they changed the stadium? Did the jetstreams magically shift? No. It's because the Phillies' pitching has vastly improved, which means there's going to be less runs and less homeruns a game there. It's not like there's two different teams playing there all of the time to get an accurate read on it. One of the teams is always the same, and if the home team's pitching gets better, statistically, the stadium is going to look like more of a pitcher's park, even though it's exactly the same stadium it was before. Same goes for Safeco. It magically looks like a better hitter's park the one year when pratically everyone on the team had a career year. Following that one season, it goes back down. Those ratings are too dependent on the home team's talent level, and thus are completely useless.

Circling back to this...CBP isn't a hitters' park, but rather a home run park. You can smack 'em out of there because of the open air flowing through there in the outfield. But extra base hits can be tough to get because of smaller gaps.

[CMH]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Jayson Stark wrote a good piece on this whole debacle.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...son&id=4262125

In it he shows that Hank Aaron hit 47 HRs in 1971 - A career high for him. Aaron was also 37 yrs old, and just two years prior played in 160 games, had 111 more ABs, but only accumulated 29 HRs.

So was he on PEDs in '71?

That's why, IMO, ALL of these topics are jokes, and detract from what the player is doing and the enjoyment of the game.

...But I can't stop a man and his blog...

Will there ever come a time when all of this stops?

I read that article and it was a good one.

My concern is you mention blog. There are SI and ESPN writers that have whispered about guys using PEDs. Why didn't they go up in arms about their own people? A lot of the attention is being made because it was a non-media guy that broke the possibility to the world and SI and ESPN are acting like hypocrites pretending that they haven't done the same.

It makes it seem like a desperate attempt at saving their jobs and pushing people away from a medium that is making pop media useless. Not saying that's what it is, but surely someone can argue that.

Anyway, my other issue with the article is Stark pointing out a collection of what, 10 names? Ooooh. So because 10 guys in baseball did what Ibanez did, we're supposed to believe that every player is capable of it? Roger Maris hit 61 homeruns. Was he on PEDs? Probably no. Sosa hit 66 homeruns. And he was on PEDs. Using Stark's argument that other's have did it, then Sosa is Ibanez in this argument and Aaron is Maris.

Yet, we know now for a fact that Sosa used PEDs. Am I saying that Ibanez did? No. I'm not saying that. But, what I am pointing out is that there are two sides to every story here. Stark can talk all he wants about Aaron putting up 40+ homeruns at the age of 37, but he can't just say that and ignore all of the other players that have collapsed at 37. He also can't try to act like Ibanez is obviously Mr. Clean Slate by comparing his age and production to Aaron's without comparing Sosa (and his once great appeal to America) to Roger Maris. Think about it.

I agree that it sucks we have to bring up PEDs or whisper about it when a guy like Ibanez produces. Again, I've always liked Ibanez and I hate to see him linked to steroids as well. I too wish we could stop and not talk about it, but unfortunately, it won't stop. It won't stop when the very same media that is complaining about Ibanez being labeled a cheater, shoots out just a few days later by leaking BREAKING NEWS about Sosa cheating. Does that not sound hypocritical or confusing?

If you want the talk to stop, it doesn't start with the fans. It starts with the media. They are the ones that drive the stories and they are the reason the fans point a finger at any player. Yet, that same media will quickly back away and point the finger at us for thinking it. It doesn't work that way. Fans are fed what they read and hear. The media drives that information. If they stop, the fans will stop.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Maris had a spike year. He went up to 39, then up to 61, then back down to 33. It was a spike in production that was just everything going the right way. Sammy jumped in hr's and stayed there. From 98 thru 03 he hit 332 hrs (55 a year). Before that, he hit 207 hr's (23 a year). After mlb started testing, he only hit 70 hr (23 a year again).

So basically, without steroids, Sosa probably hits between 300-400 career hr's and is considered a good player.

There's also the fact that Sosa didn't get tested most of his career. How are we assuming Ibanez is on Roids when there's testing? What's the point of baseball testing if we're just going to assume these guys are juicing.

[snepp]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

How are we assuming Ibanez is on Roids when there's testing? What's the point of baseball testing if we're just going to assume these guys are juicing.

I have yet to see a single person assume Ibanez is on 'roids.

[JBH3]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

I didn't think we needed another Raul thread so I'll post it here.

Raul has been placed on the 15-day D/L w/ a groin strain.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4269109

[CMH]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

I didn't think we needed another Raul thread so I'll post it here.

Raul has been placed on the 15-day D/L w/ a groin strain.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4269109

The roids are breaking down his body!

[Ruffy]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Might have been all those K's in the jays series.

Romero got him 3 times!

[WazzuRC]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Me thinks it's all this stroking by Phillies OS'ers that's caused his strained groin.

[P2K]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Me thinks it's all this stroking by Phillies OS'ers that's caused his strained groin.

That ain't funny.

[CMH]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Seriously, though, that's a blow to the team.

Even with all the back and forth, I hate to see teams lose one of their best players to an injury.

[WazzuRC]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

Seriously, though, that's a blow to the team.

Even with all the back and forth, I hate to see teams lose one of their best players to an injury.

Yeah I hate to see Raul go down with an injury, especially with the year he's having. He's always been one of my favorite Mariners.

[wwharton]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

First of all, it's a blog. I don't care what the journalists on OTL said, bloggers are not bound by the same standards as newspaper and magazine writers. It's the internet. There's no accountability, no credibility, and no obligation to abide by any "standards" that Joe Schmo from the Times Weekly refers to. That's partially because of the platform itself - impossible to regulate, so take it for what it's worth. It's just a bunch of babble and opinions on the internet, none of which need to conform to anything. This is both good and bad, and it is the nature of the internet.

Along with that, to Raul Ibanez: if you don't want people on their BLOGS speculating about your steriods use, don't be a part of a pro union that has prevented adequate testing of PED's for players like you. Don't play in the most drug-enhanced sport on the planet. Don't have a career year out of nowhere at almost 40 years of age. What do you expect the bloggers to think? That somehow you are different from all the other MLB schmucks who were in your shoes 5 and 10 years ago, and low and behold, were on PEDs? Please. You're a professional athlete, and you're going to get talked about. The speculation is only logical, and if it's going to bother you, go work at a bank or something.

I couldn't agree with everything in this post more.

I swear, if I were a clean pro athlete these days, I wouldn't watch, read or listen to anything related to my sport.

As well as this one.

His whole blog is eluding to it...Why fuel this kind of stuff is what I'm saying. Just let it go, and if he pops positive he pops positive.





-OR- It would be foolish to be a jaded baseball fan, and not just let nature take its course rather than try and play Mr. Fangraph w/ our park factors and try dismiss Ibanez for something he has no carnal knowledge that he did or did not do.



lol...the blog in of itself is a judgement. He's basically indicted Ibanez on PED use. At least that's the way I see it.

I see where you're coming from but I do think you're reading it a little wrong. Think of it this way. Lets say a "legit journalist" came out and basically said he HAD to be on roids and Ibanez popped off at that guy instead. JRod could've written this exact same blog post in defense of Ibanez. The way I see it, his point is that it's a shame that someone like Ibanez is automatically thrown into the roid speculation when he has a great season like this, rather than us just enjoying it like you're saying we should. Maybe it would've been more clear if he painted the picture from a 3rd person's perspective but everything he wrote was pretty much why fans and media will accuse Ibanez... not really that he, himself is. In fact, that last sentence tells me he sits in the same place as you... not going to think about it... if it turns out he did, he won't be surprised, if it turns out he didn't, great for him for defying the odds so late in his career.

[JBH3]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

^ My discontent over the issue isn't just reserved for Jrod. It is any writer, blogger, etc.

If this were a baseball writer I'd still feel the same way, and for the writers who have done the same speculations I'm annoyed by them too.

It just so happens that Jrod's blog got a lot more publicity than -insert baseball writers name here - column.

[wwharton]

Re: Raul Ibanez rips one of our OS members.

^ My discontent over the issue isn't just reserved for Jrod. It is any writer, blogger, etc.

If this were a baseball writer I'd still feel the same way, and for the writers who have done the same speculations I'm annoyed by them too.

It just so happens that Jrod's blog got a lot more publicity than -insert baseball writers name here - column.

The thing is, my interpretation of JRod's blog is that he agrees with you. It seems like his message is that it's a shame that someone like Ibanez is automatically questioned by the likes of writers you're talking about and fans bc of the recent trend and media overreaction. I think you're taking his examples of why people would accuse Ibanez as him accusing Ibanez, when I don't think he is at all.

And since no one has specifically come out and accused Ibanez, that's why Ibanez overreacted to it also. It would've been better if he picked someone else that had actually been accused to use as an example, but right now there really isn't anyone out there like that so he picked the next best thing for his point... a guy performing above his norm later in his career.