Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

[redsox4evur]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

But Juan Marichal IS NOT a borderline candidate. The guy was rightfully a slam dunk (he was made to wait until his 3rd year because of his role the 1965 brawl)...no one is arguing that he isn't a slam dunk candidate. Why do you think Juan Marichal is a borderline candidate? Is Bob Gibson a borderline candidate? He and Marichal are very, very close...

You obviously are misunderstanding my post. I never said he was a borderline candidate. I was saying if he played in the same era as Mussina he would've been. And Mussina would've been a lock if he played during Marichal's era, but he didn't. The stats he put up in his era make him a borderline candidate. I mean I don't get why chose Marichal if you think it's unfair for me to use widely accepted stats like FIP and ERA to compare them. Maybe go and look at other players in Mussina's era to them instead of a guy from a completely different era.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

You obviously are misunderstanding my post. I never said he was a borderline candidate. I was saying if he played in the same era as Mussina he would've been. And Mussina would've been a lock if he played during Marichal's era, but he didn't. The stats he put up in his era make him a borderline candidate. I mean I don't get why chose Marichal if you think it's unfair for me to use widely accepted stats like FIP and ERA to compare them. Maybe go and look at other players in Mussina's era to them instead of a guy from a completely different era.

My bad on the mis-understanding. You repeatedly said just because one guy got in who shouldn't (I took that to be Marichal) that doesn't mean Mussina should.

I did compare Mussina to Glavine and Smoltz. Both of those guys had no trouble breezing in, yet Mussina posted a better WAR than both of them during his career. We can agree to disagree, but I just continue to be befuddled with the lack of support for Mussina.

[kehlis]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

And he would have been a borderline candidate just like Mussina.

You obviously are misunderstanding my post. I never said he was a borderline candidate.

Literally back to back posts...

[redsox4evur]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Literally back to back posts...

I thought out I had explained like I did in my last post...


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[kehlis]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I thought out I had explained like I did in my last post...

No idea what the above post means but in one post you say he's borderline and in the next you say you never said he was borderline.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

No idea what the above post means but in one post you say he's borderline and in the next you say you never said he was borderline.

Case closed.

My bad on the mis-understanding. You repeatedly said just because one guy got in who shouldn't (I took that to be Marichal) that doesn't mean Mussina should.

I did compare Mussina to Glavine and Smoltz. Both of those guys had no trouble breezing in, yet Mussina posted a better WAR than both of them during his career. We can agree to disagree, but I just continue to be befuddled with the lack of support for Mussina.

But Glavine had teh winz! Smoltz was a Cy Young!!

Clearly they belong and Mussina does not.

/s

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I'm borderline on Mussina and Schilling, I wont be upset either way.

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[57oceanlover]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

As long as its not the drug users, Bonds, McGwire,Sosa no problems with any one who put the stats up..
Question, if I may, when do you all think the drug abuse started and ended? my guess is 2000 to 2008?? Always been some abuse thu baseball I guess but the 2000s went way overboard..

[TripleCrown9]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

As long as its not the drug users, Bonds, McGwire,Sosa no problems with any one who put the stats up..
Question, if I may, when do you all think the drug abuse started and ended? my guess is 2000 to 2008?? Always been some abuse thu baseball I guess but the 2000s went way overboard..

Pretty sure it started in the mid-90s.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Pretty sure it started in the mid-90s.

I think steroid use in baseball began in the 1970's in isolated cases and was becoming more prevalent by the end of the 1980's. It became a full blown epidemic by the mid-1990's and I believe it continued to be until 2006 or so.

[redsox4evur]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

The steroid era is generally described as the late 80's til the mid 2000's. I would imagine the height of steroid use was towards the end of that period. Probably 97-2005. Because you had McGwire go off on one of the great races in baseball history in 98. And that made guys like Bonds turn to using steroids.


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[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

After further evaluation, I think Curt Schilling is really getting robbed.

He has the power numbers. Three years of 300K's or more, 3 time 20 game winner, A career 3.46 era, 216 wins, and he's still borderline for me at that point.

But then you factor in his playoff stats, and he's really a slam dunk.

11-2 with a 2.23 era in 19 playoff starts, and obviously legendary performances in 3 world series opportunities. He's the definition of a big game pitcher.

It's egregious, that he's not in. And this is coming from a Yankee fan, who absolutely loathed Schilling.



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[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

I'm borderline on Mussina and Schilling, I wont be upset either way.

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After further evaluation, I think Curt Schilling is really getting robbed.

He has the power numbers. Three years of 300K's or more, 3 time 20 game winner, A career 3.46 era, 216 wins, and he's still borderline for me at that point.

But then you factor in his playoff stats, and he's really a slam dunk.

11-2 with a 2.23 era in 19 playoff starts, and obviously legendary performances in 3 world series opportunities. He's the definition of a big game pitcher.

It's egregious, that he's not in. And this is coming from a Yankee fan, who absolutely loathed Schilling.



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Looks like you've seen the light. Hard to argue against Schilling's accomplishments on the field with Philly, Arizona, and Boston. That he is such a massive douche (he physically embodies everything wrong with this country, imo) is the part that makes it so his fate doesn't bother me one way or another. That said, from a statistical standpoint, he certainly deserves to get in.

Spoiler

Pictured: giant douche

I like Mussina's candidacy as well. I would vote him in without a second thought if I had a ballot.

The steroid era is generally described as the late 80's til the mid 2000's. I would imagine the height of steroid use was towards the end of that period. Probably 97-2005. Because you had McGwire go off on one of the great races in baseball history in 98. And that made guys like Bonds turn to using steroids.


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Simply put and easy to remember, The Steroid Era spans Jose Canseco's career.

[DamnYanks2]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Looks like you've seen the light. Hard to argue against Schilling's accomplishments on the field with Philly, Arizona, and Boston. That he is such a massive douche (he physically embodies everything wrong with this country, imo) is the part that makes it so his fate doesn't bother me one way or another. That said, from a statistical standpoint, he certainly deserves to get in.

Spoiler

Pictured: giant douche

I like Mussina's candidacy as well. I would vote him in without a second thought if I had a ballot.



Simply put and easy to remember, The Steroid Era spans Jose Canseco's career.

I just really never cared about Schilling enough to look at his accomplishments, and I assumed he was a borderline candidate, and he kind of is, until you get to his playoff resume, which is eye popping, and immediately put him over the hump for me.

Yes, as much as he is a douche, he is absolutely deserving, this is clearly a bias on the voters part, which is unacceptable. It's their job to get the right guys in, and you can't help, but look at Schilling and say, ok.. this guy has the credentials.

Mussina is still really borderline for me, but it's hard to ignore he has a War higher then Gibson, Glavine, Schilling, among other Hof inductees. He just doesn't have the eye popping stats, or playoff resume of Schilling.

Mussina is really one of those guys you have to look at beyond the numbers, but certainly is worthy of a strong case.


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[Speedy]

Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

Anybody want to be kind enough to post next year's ballot?