Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

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  • Chip Douglass
    Hall Of Fame
    • Dec 2005
    • 12256

    #1891
    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

    I remember making the case for Mauer on here a few years ago.

    The upshot is that catchers shouldn't be held to the same standard as other position players since it's such a unique (and punishing) position, so they should be judged relative to other catchers. Mauer's top 15 all time at the position in WAR and was probably the best player in the AL at his peak, so I'd vote for him.
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    • rdnk
      All Star
      • Feb 2009
      • 5730

      #1892
      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

      If you look at Mauer just as a catcher, he falls into the fringe HOF group of catchers like Posada and Parrish. Plus as a 1B/DH, he's been a below average player. Had he kept hitting like he did earlier in his career, or had he stayed at catcher, he would have had a much better chance at the hall.

      Yadi is likely a special case when it comes to the HOF, so I'm not sure if he's the best comparison for Mauer.
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      • Caulfield
        Hall Of Fame
        • Apr 2011
        • 10986

        #1893
        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

        dont get me wrong, I love Harold Baines (as I do almost all the 1980's Pale Hose) and he dserves the HoF but I cant get over how they keep passing up Tommy John . If he hadn't lost all of 1975 season and a good chunk of 1974 recovering from an injury that previously players just didn't bounce back from, and averaged his usual 13 wins, he gets his 300 victories, and he would have went Halling long ago. If Candy Cummings can make it in based on being famous for being the first (maybe) player to throw a curve then John belongs in for being more closely associated with a far more famous surgery than Candy is mentioned when talking curveballs.

        [/end rant] *for now*
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        • TheMatrix31
          RF
          • Jul 2002
          • 52927

          #1894
          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

          These committees are dumb. I guess I "get" the point of a committee to revisit some players, but why isn't the pool of players that are "reconsidered" or whatever limited to players who got, say, 65-74‰ of the vote?

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          • WaitTilNextYear
            Go Cubs Go
            • Mar 2013
            • 16830

            #1895
            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

            Some Halladay discussion going on in Off Topic, but I thought I'd put my comments here instead as we prep for HoF induction season...

            I'm not sure if Halladay is a 1st ballot guy for me, but I wouldn't mind if he made it (provided that Mussina also does). Sure, untimely early deaths tend to make us canonize people a bit too quickly (especially because the reason Halladay died young was basically 'flying a plane poorly while high'), but I digress.

            As for his career, it could easily be argued that Halladay was one of the best pitchers of his era. That's one of the things I look for...is the guy just an All-Star sometimes? Or is he a world-beater year-in and year-out? Maybe he wasn't quite in the same orbit as Pedro Martinez or Randy Johnson, but those are tough comps for anybody. That being said, Pedro was 219-100 with a 2.93 ERA in 2827.1 IP whereas Roy Halladay was 203-105 with a 3.38 ERA in 2749.1 IP. Pedro blows him away in strikeouts and WAR, but Halladay had the better BB-rate. Halladay also had some nice moments with throwing one of only two no-hitters in MLB playoff history, a perfecto, two Cy Youngs, five top-3 finishes, three 20-win seasons, four-time league leader in IP. Plus, he played his entire career either in a stacked AL East or the band box that is Citizen's Bank Park. It's a heckuva résumé.
            Last edited by WaitTilNextYear; 12-28-2018, 09:24 PM. Reason: correction, see post below
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            • IlliniM1ke
              Heroes Never Die
              • Feb 2003
              • 8082

              #1896
              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

              Halladay never won a World Series unless my memory is failing me, Phillies won before he arrived I'm pretty sure.

              Deserves to be in IMO, just pointing that one out.
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              • Sportsforever
                NL MVP
                • Mar 2005
                • 20368

                #1897
                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                Furthermore, on the Halladay thing; tell me how Halladay's career is markedly better than Mike Mussina or Kevin Brown? I do think Halladay/Mussina were a tick better than Brown, but not so much that Brown gets 2.1% and drops off the ballot while Halladay seemingly is a first ballot guy. Just re-enforces how much "personality" and the media liking you goes into this...
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                • WaitTilNextYear
                  Go Cubs Go
                  • Mar 2013
                  • 16830

                  #1898
                  Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                  Originally posted by Sportsforever
                  Furthermore, on the Halladay thing; tell me how Halladay's career is markedly better than Mike Mussina or Kevin Brown? I do think Halladay/Mussina were a tick better than Brown, but not so much that Brown gets 2.1% and drops off the ballot while Halladay seemingly is a first ballot guy. Just re-enforces how much "personality" and the media liking you goes into this...
                  Wasn't Brown implicated in the Mitchell report? That would be one big difference.
                  Last edited by WaitTilNextYear; 12-29-2018, 12:57 PM.
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                  • WaitTilNextYear
                    Go Cubs Go
                    • Mar 2013
                    • 16830

                    #1899
                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                    If I had a ballot, this would be my list for 2019...in order of most deserving to least:

                    Mariano Rivera
                    Barry Bonds
                    Roger Clemens
                    Mike Mussina
                    Manny Ramirez
                    Edgar Martinez
                    Curt Schilling
                    Roy Halladay
                    Gary Sheffield
                    Billy Wagner

                    My first few guys out (no particular order) would be Omar Vizquel, Jeff Kent, Andy Pettitte, Andruw Jones, Larry Walker, and Scott Rolen. I think I might be biased against Fred McGriff for playing on the abysmally underachieving 2002 Cubs team.
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                    • Speedy
                      #Ace
                      • Apr 2008
                      • 16143

                      #1900
                      Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                      No qualms on that except for Billy Wagner over Andruw.

                      I sincerely hope he gets a huge jump this year...Andruw should be in the HOF, he was the Ozzie Smith of his generation but with WAY better offensive stats. He should have won the MVP in 2005 but that's a different topic.
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                      • WaitTilNextYear
                        Go Cubs Go
                        • Mar 2013
                        • 16830

                        #1901
                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                        Originally posted by Speedy
                        No qualms on that except for Billy Wagner over Andruw.

                        I sincerely hope he gets a huge jump this year...Andruw should be in the HOF, he was the Ozzie Smith of his generation but with WAY better offensive stats. He should have won the MVP in 2005 but that's a different topic.
                        I just remember Billy Wagner throwing smoke against the Cubs for about a decade. He was untouchable. He had Kimbrel/Chapman strikeout rates...back in 1997.
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                        • DieHardYankee26
                          BING BONG
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 10178

                          #1902
                          Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                          Sandman and the impostor Sandman getting in together would be cool. Manny is an interesting one, hadn't put much thought into him. He's closer to the Mark McGwire/Sammy Sosa tier than the I realized.
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                          • redsox4evur
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Jul 2013
                            • 18169

                            #1903
                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                            Here's the quintessential perfect ballot.
                            Bonds
                            Clemens
                            Rivera
                            Halladay
                            Ramirez

                            TBH though there is a case to be made against every player on the ballot this year. The biggest one being Rivera. If you're not gunna vote for him, I'm not gunna get mad at you. He's a closer, we've been told for years saves don't matter, closers don't matter (2016 Indians were the clear frontrunners of that), etc.
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                            • TheMatrix31
                              RF
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 52927

                              #1904
                              Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                              I hate saying "people forget" because that's an annoying thing people on the Internet do now, but I think it gets lost just how incredible a hitter Manny Ramirez was because it's overshadowed by how much of a ****-for-brains moron he was.
                              Last edited by TheMatrix31; 12-30-2018, 02:56 PM.

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                              • dubcity
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • May 2012
                                • 17874

                                #1905
                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                Originally posted by TheMatrix31
                                I hate saying "people forget" because that's an annoying thing people on the Internet do now, but I think it gets lost just how incredible a bitter Manny Ramirez was because it's overshadowed by how much of a ****-for-brains moron he was.
                                It's not overshadowed to me. Not in the least.

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