Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

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  • MrMBrown
    Banned
    • Jun 2013
    • 321
    #811
    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

    Originally posted by TheMatrix31
    This Ken Gurnick guy should get his *** kicked.
    Repeatedly

      Comment

      • lhslancers
        Banned
        • Nov 2011
        • 3589
        #812
        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

        The stats aren't exact for their careers but I think Jack Morris is kinda like Andy Pettitte. Incredible to me that Mike Piazza isn't getting mentioned more. He has to be considered among the top five hitting catchers of all time.

          Comment

          • Sportsforever
            NL MVP
            • Mar 2005
            • 20368
            #813
            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

            Originally posted by lhslancers
            The stats aren't exact for their careers but I think Jack Morris is kinda like Andy Pettitte. Incredible to me that Mike Piazza isn't getting mentioned more. He has to be considered among the top five hitting catchers of all time.
            Top 5? No way…he's clear cut #1 and it's not really even close IMO.
            "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

              Comment

              • DrJones
                All Star
                • Mar 2003
                • 9108
                #814
                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                Originally posted by lhslancers
                The stats aren't exact for their careers but I think Jack Morris is kinda like Andy Pettitte. Incredible to me that Mike Piazza isn't getting mentioned more. He has to be considered among the top five hitting catchers of all time.
                In this thread, or in the media? The writers think he's a roider.
                Originally posted by Thrash13
                Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                Originally posted by slickdtc
                DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                Originally posted by Kipnis22
                yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                  Comment

                  • SPTO
                    binging
                    • Feb 2003
                    • 68046
                    #815
                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                    Originally posted by DrJones
                    Strictly based on 1980s stats alone? Probably not. Based on entire career? Easily.

                    And you do remember that Blyleven has better career playoff stats and outduelled Morris head-to-head in the 1987 ALCS when the Twins upset the heavily favoured Tigers, right?



                    Honestly? If Morris does make it, he can thank steroids and the sabermetric movement. If Morris was one of the best pitchers of the 1980s, why did he hover around the 20-25% range for his first 5 years on the HoF ballot, when his anecdotal "he just feels like a Hall of Famer" case should've been strongest, during years in which only 1-2 were being voted in every year? It's not like new BBWAA voters started voting for Morris. The same old farts who didn't think he was a Hall of Famer from 2000 to 2004, the same old farts that never voted for him for a Cy Young while he played, started pushing for him to put the juicers and the Moneyball nerds in their place.
                    Originally posted by snepp
                    Then you need to narrow the focus for every player to their 10 prime seasons in order to come up with any meaningful comparison.

                    Still doesn't make Morris any better a candidate.




                    You forgot to mention Blyleven, Steib, Ryan, and Fernando. As well as a host of others that didn't have the "80's" conveniently fall smack dab on top of their prime years. A guy like Viola put up as much WAR in the 80's with two and a half fewer seasons to go along with pitching for a putrid baseball team most years.
                    Yeah, I admit that the stats easily put my claims to shame so i've given up trying to say "i'm right, you're not" and accept the fact that Morris is my blind spot. I'm sure each and everyone of us has a blind spot in our fandom and Morris happens to be mine.

                    Just so long as you guys don't think me a moron for feeling that way LOL
                    Member of the Official OS Bills Backers Club

                    "Baseball is the most important thing that doesn't matter at all" - Robert B. Parker

                      Comment

                      • DrJones
                        All Star
                        • Mar 2003
                        • 9108
                        #816
                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                        Originally posted by SPTO
                        Yeah, I admit that the stats easily put my claims to shame so i've given up trying to say "i'm right, you're not" and accept the fact that Morris is my blind spot. I'm sure each and everyone of us has a blind spot in our fandom and Morris happens to be mine.

                        Just so long as you guys don't think me a moron for feeling that way LOL
                        It's perfectly fair to say, "He's one of my favourite players, I hope he makes the Hall of Fame." Well, unless you're a BBWAA member who uses that as a reason to vote for somebody. (And many do.)

                        Morris will get in via the Veterans Committee in a few years, anyway.
                        Originally posted by Thrash13
                        Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                        Originally posted by slickdtc
                        DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                        Originally posted by Kipnis22
                        yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                          Comment

                          • lhslancers
                            Banned
                            • Nov 2011
                            • 3589
                            #817
                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                            Originally posted by Sportsforever
                            Top 5? No way…he's clear cut #1 and it's not really even close IMO.
                            That's what I mean. Even if he was only considered to be in the top 5 you would think he would get more mention. I think maybe only Elston Howard came close one year to matching Piazza's highest BA.

                              Comment

                              • lhslancers
                                Banned
                                • Nov 2011
                                • 3589
                                #818
                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                Originally posted by DrJones
                                In this thread, or in the media? The writers think he's a roider.
                                Thinking and knowing are two things though. I guess the whole system needs an overhaul. Even in a worst case I think steroids help with recovery and might turn some warning track outs into just out of the parkers but they sure do not put the bat on the ball for you.

                                  Comment

                                  • AC
                                    Win the East
                                    • Sep 2010
                                    • 14951
                                    #819
                                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                    Revealed: The Hall Of Fame Voter Who Turned His Ballot Over To Deadspin (click me!)

                                    I love Deadspin.
                                    "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

                                      Comment

                                      • DrJones
                                        All Star
                                        • Mar 2003
                                        • 9108
                                        #820
                                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                        » The Steroid Hunt
                                        http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10261642/mlb-hall-fame-voting-steroid-era


                                        This is an excellent history of the whole mess.
                                        Originally posted by Thrash13
                                        Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
                                        Originally posted by slickdtc
                                        DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
                                        Originally posted by Kipnis22
                                        yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

                                          Comment

                                          • yougo1000
                                            Pro
                                            • Nov 2010
                                            • 885
                                            #821
                                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                            Does anyone think Alfonso Soriano is a hall of famer? .270 lifetime average and 412 home runs combined with his speed (289 steals). He was sub-par defensively but produced on offense and could have been one of the best offensive second baseman in baseball history before he was switched to left field.
                                            Check out my Baseball Rumors Blog http://baseballrumors101.blogspot.com/

                                              Comment

                                              • AC
                                                Win the East
                                                • Sep 2010
                                                • 14951
                                                #822
                                                Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                                Originally posted by yougo1000
                                                Does anyone think Alfonso Soriano is a hall of famer? .270 lifetime average and 412 home runs combined with his speed (289 steals). He was sub-par defensively but produced on offense and could have been one of the best offensive second baseman in baseball history before he was switched to left field.
                                                Nope. Nope nope nope. Nopity nope.
                                                "Twelve at-bats is a pretty decent sample size." - Eric Byrnes

                                                  Comment

                                                  • Sportsforever
                                                    NL MVP
                                                    • Mar 2005
                                                    • 20368
                                                    #823
                                                    Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                                    Originally posted by yougo1000
                                                    Does anyone think Alfonso Soriano is a hall of famer? .270 lifetime average and 412 home runs combined with his speed (289 steals). He was sub-par defensively but produced on offense and could have been one of the best offensive second baseman in baseball history before he was switched to left field.
                                                    Negative. 412 home runs in this era is nothing special and he really was a one trick pony once his speed went.
                                                    "People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

                                                      Comment

                                                      • BigBoi23
                                                        MVP
                                                        • Mar 2008
                                                        • 1096
                                                        #824
                                                        Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                                        Originally posted by yougo1000
                                                        Does anyone think Alfonso Soriano is a hall of famer? .270 lifetime average and 412 home runs combined with his speed (289 steals). He was sub-par defensively but produced on offense and could have been one of the best offensive second baseman in baseball history before he was switched to left field.
                                                        To piggyback on what others are saying - no way. The JAWS numbers are not kind to him. He sits below Holliday, Braun, and Crawford as a LF. He was a treat to watch in his prime but there's just no room in the HOF for "what-if" players.

                                                          Comment

                                                          • WaitTilNextYear
                                                            Go Cubs Go
                                                            • Mar 2013
                                                            • 16830
                                                            #825
                                                            Re: Hall Of Fame: Yes Or No?

                                                            So does Frank Thomas getting in pave the way for Craig Grebeck?
                                                            Chicago Cubs | Chicago Bulls | Green Bay Packers | Michigan Wolverines

                                                              Comment

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