7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

[ImTellinTim]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

5 errors and a run in Santana's no hitter? That shouldn't count. I don't know why, but that shouldn't count.

Why? It was the Indians that made 5 errors, not the Angels. They made one.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

He did a sweep tag because Daniel McCutchen (P) was screaming for him to throw to 1B since Proctor fell and a double play ended the inning. Still, he had a lot of time to throw to 1B and didn't need to do a sweep tag to get the out at the plate.

To the cruise guy that pointed me in the direction of the video, thanks. That's the one that I had watched on youtube but it got pulled off.

Moving on...

If he did a sweep tag because he was trying to make the tag and throw it down to first, why did he turn away from 1st base and never even looked in the direction of 1st base? There's absolutely no way that he was thinking about throwing it down to first at the time. He was just trying to get the out and for whatever reason absolutely blew the tag.

Edit: the last angle on that video is the best one in my opinion and to me, it looks like he just barely misses Lugo. It's really close though, but that's the only angle that you can really tell from and it's slowed down perfectly too.

[Bellsprout]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

Why? It was the Indians that made 5 errors, not the Angels. They made one.

Because I read the linescore wrong. That's why!

Further proof that I am an idiot.

[snepp]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

Is the runner somehow "less out" due to it being a lousy tag?

Does the lack of a textbook tag make a miserable call less miserable?

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

Is the runner somehow "less out" due to it being a lousy tag?

Does the lack of a textbook tag make a miserable call less miserable?

No, it just makes it hard to tell if it was a miserable call.

[snepp]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

I don't think it's that hard to tell. It's no different than hundreds of other properly called swipe tags every week in the league.

The dude blew it.

[mjb2124]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

If he did a sweep tag because he was trying to make the tag and throw it down to first, why did he turn away from 1st base and never even looked in the direction of 1st base? There's absolutely no way that he was thinking about throwing it down to first at the time. He was just trying to get the out and for whatever reason absolutely blew the tag.

Edit: the last angle on that video is the best one in my opinion and to me, it looks like he just barely misses Lugo. It's really close though, but that's the only angle that you can really tell from and it's slowed down perfectly too.

He sweeps, looks for the call over his left shoulder and then spins back to throw to first...as he starts to spin, the safe call comes and McKenry spins back towards the ump in disbelief. I can see that from the video, but hearing McKenry on the radio state that he was going to 1B for the double play because McCutchen was yelling first kind of solidifies that point. I do think he spun the wrong way for the best throw to 1B, but I'm not going to slam the guy...he's been beat up the last few games and just caught 19 innings. He could be full of crap on the radio, but I'll take the man for his word until he proves otherwise.

I guess the safe/out call is all in the eye of the beholder, but IMO there's no doubt Lugo was tagged out. Obviously you feel otherwise based on your posts and that's your prerogative - neither opinion is going to change the outcome. No sense in wasting brain cells debating opinions on the internet. Take it from an old, wise man.

What really sucks for the Pirates is they're finally playing important games in July/August and their schedule right now is tough enough (ATL and PHI). STL has a much easier few days coming up (HOU and CHC) so they could get a bigger lead in the division.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

He sweeps, looks for the call over his left shoulder and then spins back to throw to first...as he starts to spin, the safe call comes and McKenry spins back towards the ump in disbelief. I can see that from the video, but hearing McKenry on the radio state that he was going to 1B for the double play because McCutchen was yelling first kind of solidifies that point. I do think he spun the wrong way for the best throw to 1B, but I'm not going to slam the guy...he's been beat up the last few games and just caught 19 innings. He could be full of crap on the radio, but I'll take the man for his word until he proves otherwise.

I guess the safe/out call is all in the eye of the beholder, but IMO there's no doubt Lugo was tagged out. Obviously you feel otherwise based on your posts and that's your prerogative - neither opinion is going to change the outcome. No sense in wasting brain cells debating opinions on the internet. Take it from an old, wise man.

What really sucks for the Pirates is they're finally playing important games in July/August and their schedule right now is tough enough (ATL and PHI). STL has a much easier few days coming up (HOU and CHC) so they could get a bigger lead in the division.

Personally, I would think that if you're trying to turn a double play, you make the tag and then spin and throw to first, not make the tag, turn around for a few seconds to see what the umpire gestures and then try to throw the guy out at first, at which point he probably wouldn't have gotten the out.

Looking at the video, he makes/misses the tag, turns to the ump, and then turns back around towards 3rd base, and then realizes the ump called Lugo safe and turns back to face the ump.

[mjb2124]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

Personally, I would think that if you're trying to turn a double play, you make the tag and then spin and throw to first, not make the tag, turn around for a few seconds to see what the umpire gestures and then try to throw the guy out at first, at which point he probably wouldn't have gotten the out.

Looking at the video, he makes/misses the tag, turns to the ump, and then turns back around towards 3rd base, and then realizes the ump called Lugo safe and turns back to face the ump.

I agree, but maybe he got caught up in the moment and/or wanted to show the ump the ball to make sure they got that out before throwing to 1B? I don't know and I do wonder why he spun back towards 3B instead of going with his momentum and swinging around straight to 1B - regardless of what he stated on air today (unless he thought he didn't have the angle). He's a rookie and rookies are prone to mistakes. I'm certainly not saying he did everything correct...simply showing that expectations of what should happen are not always realities.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

I agree, but maybe he got caught up in the moment and/or wanted to show the ump the ball to make sure they got that out before throwing to 1B? I don't know and I do wonder why he spun back towards 3B instead of going with his momentum and swinging around straight to 1B - regardless of what he stated on air today (unless he thought he didn't have the angle). He's a rookie and rookies are prone to mistakes. I'm certainly not saying he did everything correct...simply showing that expectations of what should happen are not always realities.

Yeah I can agree with that.

All in all, I just think everyone saying this is the worst call of all time and stuff are just prisoners of the moment so-to speak. Was the timing of the call horrible? Yes, obviously, it ended the game. Was it the wrong call? There's a pretty good chance it was, although it's very tough to tell. But he wasn't blatantly out (he should have been, but the tag was just horrible) like a lot of people seem to think. People just expected Lugo to be called out because it was such an easy tag to make, but at the end of the day, the catcher laid down a god awful tag and may or may not have missed him.

Edit: Just read a comment from someone that said "It wasn't a terrible call. It was just a terrible call to make." I think that's much more accurate than the people saying this was the worst call of all time. McKenry put the umpire in a horrible spot because he made an easy out into maybe an out and it was the deciding moment in the game.

[TCM]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

Mauer just hit his first homer of the season.

[Beantown]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

Mauer just hit his first homer of the season.

Ellsbury hit his 17th tonight.

[KSUowls]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

I haven't been able to find all the replays that were shown live. It's kind of implied in the one that was shown a few pages back, but there was one or two angles where you could really see it. As I said though even the vid a few pages back kind of implies that further contact was made beyond the initial sweep. You just needed a different angle to see it.


eta - after watching sportscenter tonight I have to amend my earlier statement. It is the 2nd worst call I've ever seen. The play at 3rd with Posada and Cano was clearly worse. It was the same umpire coincidentally.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

At the end of the day, when you watch the replay and see that McKenry may have just barely brushed Lugo's leg, that alone makes it not the worst call of all-time. If there's barely any contact at all, there's no way you can say Meals made the worst call of all-time for not being able to see the tiniest bit of contact in the split second he got to see the play. Now had they reviewed the play and decided he was still safe, then maybe you'd have an argument (although I don't think they would be able to overturn the call if they did a challenge system like the NFL does).

[daflyboys]

Re: 7/25 - 7/31 Game Discussion Thread

Just another opportunity to show Uncle Charlie that Domonic Brown CANNOT play the OF.

And again...Hamels cannot get run support.