Epstein to Cubs?

[djep]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

I was in Boston for the first time in 10 years yesterday when the Globe article broke. Part of the piece smells like a plant from ownership looking to grease the skids for Francona and Epstein on their way out of town. But then there's the stuff about Youkilis and the 3 star pitchers that doesn't seem to make much sense. Why would ownership want to tarnish the rep of these players who will most definitely be back next season?

[Segagendude]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

And this all started on the first of September? And the Boston press decided to withhold this "explosive" info until after the season was over? I call shenanigans.

Not saying that at all. In fact, the way I see it, back when they won it all the first time, things like this were probably happening....

But when a team fails, these accusations always seem to come out. A "scapegoat", if you will. And the wheels are coming off. Seems to me they're trying to pin this collapse on Francona.

And every team needs a leader.....who was it in Boston? Who was the guy who stepped up and took command?

Sounds like back to square one for Boston.

[SPTO]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

Not saying that at all. In fact, the way I see it, back when they won it all the first time, things like this were probably happening....

But when a team fails, these accusations always seem to come out. A "scapegoat", if you will. And the wheels are coming off. Seems to me they're trying to pin this collapse on Francona.

And every team needs a leader.....who was it in Boston? Who was the guy who stepped up and took command?

Sounds like back to square one for Boston.

I think this post sums things up perfectly. What made the Red Sox so good back then was that they had shenanigans like this happening but they didn't have the injuries and/or lack of depth that they did this year. Francona to me, seems like he was always a hands off manager but when things needed to be brought back to focus he'd find a way to get the players' attention. That kind of managerial style can last a long time but it can also lead to a situation where the inmates run the asylum and you can lose control of the situation easily.

I remember at the end of the season it was reported up here that after the Jays got smoked by Boston at the Rogers Centre and the Bosox had a really healthy win streak going, Francona STILL called a team meeting and asking if they (the players) really had what it takes to take the bull by the horns and win the division. There must've been a lot of internal problems if the manager is calling a meeting like that in the midst of a win streak.

With age and overpriced players I think the Red Sox are going to enter a period of struggle the next couple or so years. It all depends on who they hire as GM and manager. If ownership makes the right moves with those hires Boston will be back on top fairly soon but if there's a bad decision made at any of those slots we could see them dropping quite a bit which would make the battle for the Wild Card fairly interesting for Tampa and Toronto.

[DrJones]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

It's not as bad as you think because we are a 2 everything media town.

The Good:

The Boston Herald (The real paper of record around here)
Barstoolsports.com
98.5 The Sports Hub

The Axis of Evil:

WEEI (red sox radio network) Old media dying off 1 day at a time
The Boston Globe (birdcage liner & sox owned)
NESN (Sox owned and mostly unwatchable outside of Bruins coverage)

It's not just the local media, though. A lot of the reason neutrals like Matrix and myself have come to hate the Red Sox is ESPN's over-the-top obsession with them. Something tells me tales of dissension in Atlanta's clubhouse (I guess the Braves just choked in "ordinary" fashion, huh?) wouldn't exactly overshadow the LCS. Not to mention a large chunk (not all, of course) of Red Sox Nation has become completely insufferable over the last few years, combining post-2004 entitlement and arrogance with pre-2004 "woe is me" syndrome. Even the worst of Yankee fans don't expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for them when they lose.

NOTE: This isn't directed at level-headed Sox fans like the ones who tend to post on OS.

[yankeesgiants]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

It's not just the local media, though. A lot of the reason neutrals like Matrix and myself have come to hate the Red Sox is ESPN's over-the-top obsession with them. Something tells me tales of dissension in Atlanta's clubhouse (I guess the Braves just choked in "ordinary" fashion, huh?) wouldn't exactly overshadow the LCS. Not to mention a large chunk (not all, of course) of Red Sox Nation has become completely insufferable over the last few years, combining post-2004 entitlement and arrogance with pre-2004 "woe is me" syndrome. Even the worst of Yankee fans don't expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for them when they lose.

NOTE: This isn't directed at level-headed Sox fans like the ones who tend to post on OS.

Totally agree. But that is because half of the people on ESPN who get face time have Boston media ties. of the top of my head:

Bob Ryan: Boston Globe
Jackie McMullan: Ex Boston Globe
Gorden Edes: Ex Boston Globe
Michael Smith: Ex Boston Globe
Howard Bryant: Ex Boston Globe
Mike Riess: Ex Boston Globe
Wendi Nix: Ex CBS Boston
Curt Schilling: Ex Red Sox
Nomar Garciaparra: Ex Red Sox
Peter Gammons: Ex Boston Globe
Todd McShay: High School teammate. Swampscott Mass.
Tedy Bruschi: Ex Patriot
Bill Simmons: Brookline Mass.

When you see or hear a sox fan spouting nonsence, chances are he or she is a WEEI listener. The smart fans dont listen to the crap of that propaganda arm of sox managment.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

It's not just the local media, though. A lot of the reason neutrals like Matrix and myself have come to hate the Red Sox is ESPN's over-the-top obsession with them. Something tells me tales of dissension in Atlanta's clubhouse (I guess the Braves just choked in "ordinary" fashion, huh?) wouldn't exactly overshadow the LCS. Not to mention a large chunk (not all, of course) of Red Sox Nation has become completely insufferable over the last few years, combining post-2004 entitlement and arrogance with pre-2004 "woe is me" syndrome. Even the worst of Yankee fans don't expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for them when they lose.

NOTE: This isn't directed at level-headed Sox fans like the ones who tend to post on OS.

Well I hated the Red Sox before they were successful or whatever. Same with the Patriots. Bro's a huge Yankees fan and my other bro's a huge Dolphins fan. I don't know if I'd call myself "neutral"

But I'm a fair man. I hate the hypocrisy of Boston fans. They've become what they hated for so many years. I'm really dismayed that they've thrown everybody under the bus about this. Epstein, Francona, the players...I mean are we to believe that the players couldn't perform because they were drinking, playing video games, and eating fried chicken? As if this was an impediment or somehow different than any other team ever?

[WazzuRC]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

It's not just the local media, though. A lot of the reason neutrals like Matrix and myself have come to hate the Red Sox is ESPN's over-the-top obsession with them. Something tells me tales of dissension in Atlanta's clubhouse (I guess the Braves just choked in "ordinary" fashion, huh?) wouldn't exactly overshadow the LCS. Not to mention a large chunk (not all, of course) of Red Sox Nation has become completely insufferable over the last few years, combining post-2004 entitlement and arrogance with pre-2004 "woe is me" syndrome. Even the worst of Yankee fans don't expect the rest of the world to feel sorry for them when they lose.

NOTE: This isn't directed at level-headed Sox fans like the ones who tend to post on OS.

Bingo. Plus the fact that all these closet Red Sox fans have come out of the woodwork over the past 7 years. Where were you before 2004? Could you even name a Red Sox player during or before the 2004 season? Newsflash, Nomar Garciaparra was a Red Sock. It's ridiculous. I go to Mariners-Red Sox games and it's a sea of Sox fans wearing their Ortiz or Pedroia t-shirt jersey's when they couldn't even name 4 other players on the team.

[Beantown]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

And this all started on the first of September? And the Boston press decided to withhold this "explosive" info until after the season was over? I call shenanigans.

Glad I wasn't the only one thinking this. I'm sure there's a lot of things going on in every MLB clubhouse similar to this all year long.

Ortiz said in an interview that this kind of stuff went on in '04, and '07, when they won the World Series. This entire ****ing mess is absolutely pathetic.

[ZM Punk]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

I'm not shocked by any means that Boston fans threw the two main guys responsible for putting that Red Sox championship team together under the best. No offense to the guys here but Red Sox fans are the most annoying fan base on the planet.

[SoxFan01605]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

I'm not shocked by any means that Boston fans threw the two main guys responsible for putting that Red Sox championship team together under the best. No offense to the guys here but Red Sox fans are the most annoying fan base on the planet.

Issues with the fan base aside (I would probably tend to agree with most of the complaints people have towards a lot of fans) I don't think the fans, morons or otherwise, should bear the brunt of blame for this (there's some ownership there too though). The fans were mostly split on Francona even before this and nobody was really ever too down on Theo (In fact, I would argue some people were FAR too high on him). Some might have been wrongly pissed at Francona when the team fell apart, but the manager getting blamed for team failure is not new to any fan base.

All this drama about fried chicken and comparing Tito to Dr. House or whatever is more of an issue with the Boston media and the organization having a trend of throwing guys under the bus on their way out to save face. When Epstein mentioned "The Red Sox Way" before Francona was formally let go, he was talking out of his ***. THIS nonsense is, unfortunately, the real Red Sox way. At least before 2007 (It was that WS when the fans and got really unbearable with this stuff, more than 04...04 was more about relief for the real fans...lol), the team still had a grittiness about them that could overshadow it at times, but the kick in the *** to departing personnel is older than most of us even.

Now, the fans who buy into that crap may indeed be idiots, but they aren't the ones that threw Francona under the bus...the team did. Let's be honest though, none of this has to do with why they collapsed. They collapsed because they played like crap at the worst time and probably because they felt they were too good to need to worry about it.

Anyway, more on topic, I hope Theo (and Tito, for that matter) has nothing but success. I am sad to see both go, but, for them at least, it's probably for the best.

[Kobalt]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

Boston wanted Matt Garza as compensation? lol

I don't fault them for trying but....

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

Ridiculous. I'm glad to see Cubs management not budging.

Epstein is a hell of a GM but all he's worth to me IMO, is 2 Mid Level prospects and Cash.

[Mo]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

Ridiculous. I'm glad to see Cubs management not budging.

Epstein is a hell of a GM but all he's worth to me IMO, is 2 Mid Level prospects and Cash.

Even that's too much. It's not like Theo can go back to Boston. Give them an appropriate amount of cash and let's move on

[1Rose]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

Yeah, just get it over with. I literally laughed out loud when I saw they asked for Garza. Give em Soriano and call it a day lmao

[Mo]

Re: Epstein to Cubs?

Word is the deal will get announced or leaked(whatever term you prefer) tomorrow.