Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

[55]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Just age and durability? What about speed? Kemp runs MUCH better than Hamilton and it's not close.

[Sportsforever]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Just age and durability? What about speed? Kemp runs MUCH better than Hamilton and it's not close.

I wasn't looking at individual skills...I was looking at performance as a whole. Yes, Kemp runs better, I don't think it makes up for the difference in their careers so far, however.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Playing in an oven during most of the summer can be quite a grind and absolutely wears down position players' stamina. Of course it does.

You living in Bellingham (beautiful place, i have a sister living up there), i wouldnt guess that you understand how brutal the heat gets in north Texas during the summer. It's the reason why Tom Landry and Tex Schramm smartly moved the Cowboys' training camp to southern California.

Don't mistake me currently living near the Canadian border to mean I've never been in the heat. I also grew up in Southern California, and even more, in southern Georgia, where it is often 95 degrees with 90% humidity. I understand it's hot. And it certainly does wear on the position players. But over the course of a game, it's going to wear on the pitchers, especially the starters, even more.

As far as defense, what makes anyone think Hamilton is significantly better than Kemp? When Hamilton plays CF, his Range Factor is slightly better than Kemp's, and his Zone Rating is slightly worse. Kemp also has the better arm (gets an assist about once every 138 innings in CF to Hamilton's once every 175). The best you can say for Hamilton there is it's a push.

Baserunning, it's not even close. Hamilton has 38 career stolen bases, Kemp had 40 last year by itself.

Hitting, Hamilton's averages are a little better, but Kemp also came up at a younger age. Kemp is just now hitting his prime years, whereas Hamilton started hitting his prime years 3 years ago. Since the beginning of last year, there's no major category where Hamilton is better, even with his torrid hot streak right now. Kemp's average is higher by 10 points, his OBP is higher by 37 points, his slg is higher by 6, he's hit 8 more home runs, and driven in 15 more rbi.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Exactly. My original comment was more of a comparison of where Hamilton & Kemp play half their games, it wasn't a knock against the Rangers.

I'd love to see what numbers Kemp could put up playing in that Little League field in Arlington.

There is no doubt that the Ballpark in Arlington is a hitter friendly park, but it doesn't diminish the value of the players there. If Hamilton was playing at Chavez Ravine, he would still be putting up monster numbers. Only six of his home runs have been "just enough," and only two would have been outs at Dodger Stadium all conditions being equal.

My point still stands about with everything being as is, Kemp is the more valuable player. However, taking cheep shots at Hamilton because of the Ballpark in Arlington is short sighted.

[bkrich83]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

There is no doubt that the Ballpark in Arlington is a hitter friendly park, but it doesn't diminish the value of the players there. If Hamilton was playing at Chavez Ravine, he would still be putting up monster numbers. Only six of his home runs have been "just enough," and only two would have been outs at Dodger Stadium all conditions being equal.

My point still stands about with everything being as is, Kemp is the more valuable player. However, taking cheep shots at Hamilton because of the Ballpark in Arlington is short sighted.

There were no cheap shots, only over sensitive Ranger fans.

[bkrich83]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Don't mistake me currently living near the Canadian border to mean I've never been in the heat. I also grew up in Southern California, and even more, in southern Georgia, where it is often 95 degrees with 90% humidity. I understand it's hot. And it certainly does wear on the position players. But over the course of a game, it's going to wear on the pitchers, especially the starters, even more.

As far as defense, what makes anyone think Hamilton is significantly better than Kemp? When Hamilton plays CF, his Range Factor is slightly better than Kemp's, and his Zone Rating is slightly worse. Kemp also has the better arm (gets an assist about once every 138 innings in CF to Hamilton's once every 175). The best you can say for Hamilton there is it's a push.

Baserunning, it's not even close. Hamilton has 38 career stolen bases, Kemp had 40 last year by itself.

Hitting, Hamilton's averages are a little better, but Kemp also came up at a younger age. Kemp is just now hitting his prime years, whereas Hamilton started hitting his prime years 3 years ago. Since the beginning of last year, there's no major category where Hamilton is better, even with his torrid hot streak right now. Kemp's average is higher by 10 points, his OBP is higher by 37 points, his slg is higher by 6, he's hit 8 more home runs, and driven in 15 more rbi.

I think Hamilton actually has the superior arm. Assist numbers don't mean much other than fewer people will challenge him.

[Marino]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Hamilton has the better arm, Kemp doesn't even have the strongest arm on his team. Also, Kemp still makes mistakes running the bases, has been one of his biggest flaws. Not stolen bases, just general mistakes with balls in play.

[Gibbz]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

The other factor is youth. Kemp is 3.5 years younger. Theoretically, he hasn't even hit his prime and he's pulling in 8+ WAR seasons. Hamilton is about to be 31.

Ah, ok--then I see where you're coming from. I voted based on who is the better player right now, and I believe that to be Hamilton.

[Friar Fanatic]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

The thing about it for me is Kemp can hit for power, average and steal bases. Hamilton however can not steal bases.

-Hamilton is older and more injury prone.
-Kemp is faster and is younger.
-Both out roughly the same offensive production. Yes Hamilton beats Kemp here but we are not comparing Hamilton to Joe Schmoe, we are comparing him to an MVP caliber player.

I think the heat and the ballparks are a silly argument. Good hitters will hit no matter where they play. Adrian Gonzalez put up amazing numbers every year being a left handed power hitter in Petco.

The numbers might be a little better or worse depending on the stadium you play in, but nothing that would dictate who is a better player. I would even go to argue that if Hamilton and Kemp both played in Petco their numbers would still only be slightly different.

[Marino]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Umm, a place like Petco has ruined a few guys careers offensively. Just look at Brian Giles.

[bkrich83]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Umm, a place like Petco has ruined a few guys careers offensively. Just look at Brian Giles.

Or Ryan Klesko or Phil Nevin, etc. The list goes on. The power alleys there are where flyballs go to die. The heavy marine air at night in particular makes it so the ball just doesn't carry well.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

The thing about it for me is Kemp can hit for power, average and steal bases. Hamilton however can not steal bases.

-Hamilton is older and more injury prone.
-Kemp is faster and is younger.
-Both out roughly the same offensive production. Yes Hamilton beats Kemp here but we are not comparing Hamilton to Joe Schmoe, we are comparing him to an MVP caliber player.

I think the heat and the ballparks are a silly argument. Good hitters will hit no matter where they play. Adrian Gonzalez put up amazing numbers every year being a left handed power hitter in Petco.

The numbers might be a little better or worse depending on the stadium you play in, but nothing that would dictate who is a better player. I would even go to argue that if Hamilton and Kemp both played in Petco their numbers would still only be slightly different.

I don't think anyone is suggesting Hamilton would suck in another ballpark (and if they are, they should stop). But there's no denying he hits in a traditionally very hitter-friendly ballpark, and the heat is a big part of that (the ball travels much better through warm air). He's not going to become a scrub, but you would be very likely to see the power numbers come down a bit.

I also don't think comparing career stats is fair, at all. Josh Hamilton, because of his off-field problems, didn't make the big leagues until he was 26. Kemp was 21 when he got the call. Kemp's development occurred in the majors, and his early career (as good as it was) is still going to drag his stats down a bit. Hamilton came up already nearing his prime years. If you are talking about who is the better player, what happened 4 years ago to a now-27 year-old player isn't particularly relevant.

Also, going just by this season is too small of a sample size. Before Hamilton's 4 hr game 8 days ago, Kemp has a higher batting avg. this year by 30 points, a higher OBP by 53 points, a higher slg by 129 points, 2 more hr, and 1 fewer rbi. And he destroyed Hamilton last year. So if you're going to focus on the last 8 games, and ignore the previous 191, then yeah, Hamilton is better. But if you're going to take those 191 games into consideration, then Kemp has been the better player. And that's ignoring his basestealing, age, injury concerns, lineup protection, and ballpark factors. That's just based on pure offensive stats.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Umm, a place like Petco has ruined a few guys careers offensively. Just look at Brian Giles.

Brian Giles made some adjustments that some others have failed to make (Ryan Ludwick, Ryan Klesko). His power numbers dropped, but he was relatively still productive until his knee became a bigger problem in his last season. Nevin had very good 2004 season, however how much were Nevin, Klesko, and Giles's game were because of PED's?

However, yes PETCO Park suppresses offense. Just look at Adrian Gonzalez, he was able to relax more at the plate instead of having to be the guy to hit home runs all the time to do any damage, and his batting average went up and he arguably had his best season ever. Chase Headley is another example and year-in and year-out he always has drastic home/road splits.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

Brian Giles made some adjustments that some others have failed to make (Ryan Ludwick, Ryan Klesko). His power numbers dropped, but he was relatively still productive until his knee became a bigger problem in his last season. Nevin had very good 2004 season, however how much were Nevin, Klesko, and Giles's game were because of PED's?

However, yes PETCO Park suppresses offense. Just look at Adrian Gonzalez, he was able to relax more at the plate instead of having to be the guy to hit home runs all the time to do any damage, and his batting average went up and he arguably had his best season ever. Chase Headley is another example and year-in and year-out he always has drastic home/road splits.

In his time in San Diego, only 35% of his HR's came at home. That's unbelievable.

[bkrich83]

Re: Josh Hamilton vs. Matt Kemp

In his time in San Diego, only 35% of his HR's came at home. That's unbelievable.

The right center field power alley is ridiculous to get it out. It was allegedly designed to cope with Barry Bonds.