Yankees Pitching Strategy

[NYJets]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

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Stoud said:
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NYJets37 said:

Yea, if the season started now, it would be junk, so would most teams. I know you hate the Yankees, and I know once the season starts you won't be able to talk to much about how bad they are, but come on, use your brain.

Mussina and Pettite= Top Notch pitchers
Contreras started 9 games last year, and was good in almost all of them, but don't let facts and stats get in your way

It is believed by almost everyone in baseball that Pettite will be a Yankee next year, it's not a gurantee, but if you want to talk about how good a rotation is, you have to pencil guys who will probably be here in.

And for as close as you can get to a gurantee, the Yankees will trade or sign a good starting pitcher besides Pettite. Maybe Colon, maybe Vazquez.

But hey, if you want to keep telling yourself how bad the Yankees rotation is, when your talking about a rotation that isn't close to what they will have at the beginning of the season, I won't stop your fun.

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First of all, the Astros have reported they are willing to inflate their payroll just to get Pettitte, the guy lives near Houston, to say EVERYONE in baseball thinks he will be back with the yankees again next year is a little nuts. I mean, they got rid of Wagner to make space for this guy. Maybe you don't like to hear things like that, so you deny them, but the cold hard truth is that it's half and half at this point. He could go ANYWHERE. You know it, I know it, the american people know it. (I love that line)

Another thing is, Colon had a dreary year last year compared to 2001, and if I were the yanks I'd rather have Loaiza, not that it would be easier to do. Vasquez is a big pickup, but come on, not as big as schilling to the sox or anything like that. To have a rotation to match others next season, they'd need millwood and vasquez next season. Somehow I doubt it all, somehow I think Vasquez will end up back in montreal next year. Millwood might end up a yankee, and so might Colon, but other than that I doubt any other pitching you're hoping for. If you want to keep stretching for your team and praying that somehow it will work out, be my guest. It's still my opinion that as things look right now, the Yankees might not even find themselves in the post next season. I won't deny they are a great team, they are, but they had troubles last year, and unless they sign some major pitching soon, the only thing they've got going for them is their power. Of course, they have forever to sign/trade for pitching, but with how fast all the FA's are quickly disappearing, I would hope for your sake they get up off their butts and start making offers.

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For Pettite, it really doesn't matter how much the Astros want to pay him. You think someone can outbid George? If the Yankees lose him, it will be because he wanted to go back home, and the Yankees never really had a chance. I just doubt that is going to happen. I can't remember the last time the Yankees lost someone they wanted to really keep. Remember Bernie? All we heard was how he was going to leave, and he was seperating himself from the team. He was all set to go to Boston, but finally decided to stay in New York for less money. My guess is Pettite will stay, and it will be similar to this, except maybe not less money. And almost every article I've read, from newspapers all over the country expect him to be back in New York.

Vazquez might not be as big a pickup as Schilling, but who said he was? Last year the Yankees had the better staff, the Red Sox matched it, and for the time being have the better one. If the Yankees get Pettite back and Vazquez, I'd give the slight edge to the Yankees as far as top to bottom goes, but the definite edge to the Red Sox for the big 3, which is what matters in the postseason.

As far as not making the post season, I doubt it. Boston is making improvements, and even if they win the division, I don't see anyone beating the Yankees for the wildcard.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
NYJets37 said:

Yea, if the season started now, it would be junk, so would most teams. I know you hate the Yankees, and I know once the season starts you won't be able to talk to much about how bad they are, but come on, use your brain.

Mussina and Pettite= Top Notch pitchers
Contreras started 9 games last year, and was good in almost all of them, but don't let facts and stats get in your way

It is believed by almost everyone in baseball that Pettite will be a Yankee next year, it's not a gurantee, but if you want to talk about how good a rotation is, you have to pencil guys who will probably be here in.

And for as close as you can get to a gurantee, the Yankees will trade or sign a good starting pitcher besides Pettite. Maybe Colon, maybe Vazquez.

But hey, if you want to keep telling yourself how bad the Yankees rotation is, when your talking about a rotation that isn't close to what they will have at the beginning of the season, I won't stop your fun.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

First of all, the Astros have reported they are willing to inflate their payroll just to get Pettitte, the guy lives near Houston, to say EVERYONE in baseball thinks he will be back with the yankees again next year is a little nuts. I mean, they got rid of Wagner to make space for this guy. Maybe you don't like to hear things like that, so you deny them, but the cold hard truth is that it's half and half at this point. He could go ANYWHERE. You know it, I know it, the american people know it. (I love that line)

Another thing is, Colon had a dreary year last year compared to 2001, and if I were the yanks I'd rather have Loaiza, not that it would be easier to do. Vasquez is a big pickup, but come on, not as big as schilling to the sox or anything like that. To have a rotation to match others next season, they'd need millwood and vasquez next season. Somehow I doubt it all, somehow I think Vasquez will end up back in montreal next year. Millwood might end up a yankee, and so might Colon, but other than that I doubt any other pitching you're hoping for. If you want to keep stretching for your team and praying that somehow it will work out, be my guest. It's still my opinion that as things look right now, the Yankees might not even find themselves in the post next season. I won't deny they are a great team, they are, but they had troubles last year, and unless they sign some major pitching soon, the only thing they've got going for them is their power. Of course, they have forever to sign/trade for pitching, but with how fast all the FA's are quickly disappearing, I would hope for your sake they get up off their butts and start making offers.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Stoud-
Your Yankee hatred is shining brightly and rather hysterical. Get a clue before you spout off. Pettitte's coming back. The only chance he goes to Houston is if he wants to take about 20 million less to pitch at home. Then God bless him. There's not one person in America (and I've read just about every Yankee related article online) that thinks he's actually going to Houston. So let's assume he's coming back. They will then get either Colon or Vazquez. They don't want Millwood (nor do I)- I think he's extremely overrated. He was horrible in the 2nd half last season for the Phils. So if the rotation is Moose, Pettitte, Colon/Vazquez, Contreras and Lieber, how is that worse than last year? Colon or Vazquez will put up similar numbers to Clemens (in terms of wins, era, ratio, K's, etc). Contreras, once he was established as a starter last year, was outstanding (I especially enjoyed his 2 hit shutout of the White Sox in September when they were still battling for the Central title). Let's say they replace Wells and Weaver in those spots. They certainly can't be any worse than Weaver was, and while Wells was solid (and there's a chance he may come back), he can be replaced.

If you're comparing it to the Sox, I'd take my chances in a 3 game series with Moose, Pettitte, and Colon/Vazquez up against Pedro, Schilling, Lowe. Here's the thing- Pedro can't beat the Yanks. And Lowe is decent, nothing special. Schilling is outstanding and will be tough to beat. But here's the kicker- no matter how good the Sox staff is, the difference maker on the teams is Rivera. The Sox don't have anyone like him (nor do most teams), and that will always be the difference between the 2 teams.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
NYJets37 said:

Yea, if the season started now, it would be junk, so would most teams. I know you hate the Yankees, and I know once the season starts you won't be able to talk to much about how bad they are, but come on, use your brain.

Mussina and Pettite= Top Notch pitchers
Contreras started 9 games last year, and was good in almost all of them, but don't let facts and stats get in your way

It is believed by almost everyone in baseball that Pettite will be a Yankee next year, it's not a gurantee, but if you want to talk about how good a rotation is, you have to pencil guys who will probably be here in.

And for as close as you can get to a gurantee, the Yankees will trade or sign a good starting pitcher besides Pettite. Maybe Colon, maybe Vazquez.

But hey, if you want to keep telling yourself how bad the Yankees rotation is, when your talking about a rotation that isn't close to what they will have at the beginning of the season, I won't stop your fun.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

First of all, the Astros have reported they are willing to inflate their payroll just to get Pettitte, the guy lives near Houston, to say EVERYONE in baseball thinks he will be back with the yankees again next year is a little nuts. I mean, they got rid of Wagner to make space for this guy. Maybe you don't like to hear things like that, so you deny them, but the cold hard truth is that it's half and half at this point. He could go ANYWHERE. You know it, I know it, the american people know it. (I love that line)

Another thing is, Colon had a dreary year last year compared to 2001, and if I were the yanks I'd rather have Loaiza, not that it would be easier to do. Vasquez is a big pickup, but come on, not as big as schilling to the sox or anything like that. To have a rotation to match others next season, they'd need millwood and vasquez next season. Somehow I doubt it all, somehow I think Vasquez will end up back in montreal next year. Millwood might end up a yankee, and so might Colon, but other than that I doubt any other pitching you're hoping for. If you want to keep stretching for your team and praying that somehow it will work out, be my guest. It's still my opinion that as things look right now, the Yankees might not even find themselves in the post next season. I won't deny they are a great team, they are, but they had troubles last year, and unless they sign some major pitching soon, the only thing they've got going for them is their power. Of course, they have forever to sign/trade for pitching, but with how fast all the FA's are quickly disappearing, I would hope for your sake they get up off their butts and start making offers.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Stoud-
Your Yankee hatred is shining brightly and rather hysterical. Get a clue before you spout off. Pettitte's coming back. The only chance he goes to Houston is if he wants to take about 20 million less to pitch at home. Then God bless him. There's not one person in America (and I've read just about every Yankee related article online) that thinks he's actually going to Houston. So let's assume he's coming back. They will then get either Colon or Vazquez. They don't want Millwood (nor do I)- I think he's extremely overrated. He was horrible in the 2nd half last season for the Phils. So if the rotation is Moose, Pettitte, Colon/Vazquez, Contreras and Lieber, how is that worse than last year? Colon or Vazquez will put up similar numbers to Clemens (in terms of wins, era, ratio, K's, etc). Contreras, once he was established as a starter last year, was outstanding (I especially enjoyed his 2 hit shutout of the White Sox in September when they were still battling for the Central title). Let's say they replace Wells and Weaver in those spots. They certainly can't be any worse than Weaver was, and while Wells was solid (and there's a chance he may come back), he can be replaced.

If you're comparing it to the Sox, I'd take my chances in a 3 game series with Moose, Pettitte, and Colon/Vazquez up against Pedro, Schilling, Lowe. Here's the thing- Pedro can't beat the Yanks. And Lowe is decent, nothing special. Schilling is outstanding and will be tough to beat. But here's the kicker- no matter how good the Sox staff is, the difference maker on the teams is Rivera. The Sox don't have anyone like him (nor do most teams), and that will always be the difference between the 2 teams.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Stoud said:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
NYJets37 said:

Yea, if the season started now, it would be junk, so would most teams. I know you hate the Yankees, and I know once the season starts you won't be able to talk to much about how bad they are, but come on, use your brain.

Mussina and Pettite= Top Notch pitchers
Contreras started 9 games last year, and was good in almost all of them, but don't let facts and stats get in your way

It is believed by almost everyone in baseball that Pettite will be a Yankee next year, it's not a gurantee, but if you want to talk about how good a rotation is, you have to pencil guys who will probably be here in.

And for as close as you can get to a gurantee, the Yankees will trade or sign a good starting pitcher besides Pettite. Maybe Colon, maybe Vazquez.

But hey, if you want to keep telling yourself how bad the Yankees rotation is, when your talking about a rotation that isn't close to what they will have at the beginning of the season, I won't stop your fun.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

First of all, the Astros have reported they are willing to inflate their payroll just to get Pettitte, the guy lives near Houston, to say EVERYONE in baseball thinks he will be back with the yankees again next year is a little nuts. I mean, they got rid of Wagner to make space for this guy. Maybe you don't like to hear things like that, so you deny them, but the cold hard truth is that it's half and half at this point. He could go ANYWHERE. You know it, I know it, the american people know it. (I love that line)

Another thing is, Colon had a dreary year last year compared to 2001, and if I were the yanks I'd rather have Loaiza, not that it would be easier to do. Vasquez is a big pickup, but come on, not as big as schilling to the sox or anything like that. To have a rotation to match others next season, they'd need millwood and vasquez next season. Somehow I doubt it all, somehow I think Vasquez will end up back in montreal next year. Millwood might end up a yankee, and so might Colon, but other than that I doubt any other pitching you're hoping for. If you want to keep stretching for your team and praying that somehow it will work out, be my guest. It's still my opinion that as things look right now, the Yankees might not even find themselves in the post next season. I won't deny they are a great team, they are, but they had troubles last year, and unless they sign some major pitching soon, the only thing they've got going for them is their power. Of course, they have forever to sign/trade for pitching, but with how fast all the FA's are quickly disappearing, I would hope for your sake they get up off their butts and start making offers.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Stoud-
Your Yankee hatred is shining brightly and rather hysterical. Get a clue before you spout off. Pettitte's coming back. The only chance he goes to Houston is if he wants to take about 20 million less to pitch at home. Then God bless him. There's not one person in America (and I've read just about every Yankee related article online) that thinks he's actually going to Houston. So let's assume he's coming back. They will then get either Colon or Vazquez. They don't want Millwood (nor do I)- I think he's extremely overrated. He was horrible in the 2nd half last season for the Phils. So if the rotation is Moose, Pettitte, Colon/Vazquez, Contreras and Lieber, how is that worse than last year? Colon or Vazquez will put up similar numbers to Clemens (in terms of wins, era, ratio, K's, etc). Contreras, once he was established as a starter last year, was outstanding (I especially enjoyed his 2 hit shutout of the White Sox in September when they were still battling for the Central title). Let's say they replace Wells and Weaver in those spots. They certainly can't be any worse than Weaver was, and while Wells was solid (and there's a chance he may come back), he can be replaced.

If you're comparing it to the Sox, I'd take my chances in a 3 game series with Moose, Pettitte, and Colon/Vazquez up against Pedro, Schilling, Lowe. Here's the thing- Pedro can't beat the Yanks. And Lowe is decent, nothing special. Schilling is outstanding and will be tough to beat. But here's the kicker- no matter how good the Sox staff is, the difference maker on the teams is Rivera. The Sox don't have anyone like him (nor do most teams), and that will always be the difference between the 2 teams.

[Stoud]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Except you forget the fact that the Sox are going after Foulke, who was, in all respects, absolutely LIGHTS OUT last season. You also dare to say Pedro, one of the top 5 pitchers in the WORLD, isn't good enough to beat the yanks? Give me a break, he just doesn't know his own limitations. I might also remind you that Colon had a paltry 15-13 win last year as compared to his 20-8 record in 2002. Even Ponson had a better record than that. IMO you have no chance at vasquez, and it's true you don't want millwood, Colon is your only shot. Good luck with that, he's not exactly consistant. OH, I am very afraid of a lineup that consists of Mussina, Colon, Contreras, and the deadly Lieber! .......

I still say you probably won't get Pettite back, not with the Astros making a huge push for him, and a whole lot of other teams. Even then you have a guy who can win you games, but unfortunately he unconsistantly gives up 1 or 2 runs one game and then 4 or 5 the next. Jesus, if it weren't for your run support he wouldn't be doing nearly as well. Personally, I think everyone is crazy to go after him as he will only put up productive numbers in an environment like New York. I still believe he will leave though, only to find out it was a mistake to do so. So for the Yankee ***** at heart like me, lets say he MIGHT NOT come back, and think about other options. If I was the yanks I'd go after Ponson, but that's just me. Then I might be just a LITTLE afraid of them...not too terribly terrified, though.

[Stoud]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Except you forget the fact that the Sox are going after Foulke, who was, in all respects, absolutely LIGHTS OUT last season. You also dare to say Pedro, one of the top 5 pitchers in the WORLD, isn't good enough to beat the yanks? Give me a break, he just doesn't know his own limitations. I might also remind you that Colon had a paltry 15-13 win last year as compared to his 20-8 record in 2002. Even Ponson had a better record than that. IMO you have no chance at vasquez, and it's true you don't want millwood, Colon is your only shot. Good luck with that, he's not exactly consistant. OH, I am very afraid of a lineup that consists of Mussina, Colon, Contreras, and the deadly Lieber! .......

I still say you probably won't get Pettite back, not with the Astros making a huge push for him, and a whole lot of other teams. Even then you have a guy who can win you games, but unfortunately he unconsistantly gives up 1 or 2 runs one game and then 4 or 5 the next. Jesus, if it weren't for your run support he wouldn't be doing nearly as well. Personally, I think everyone is crazy to go after him as he will only put up productive numbers in an environment like New York. I still believe he will leave though, only to find out it was a mistake to do so. So for the Yankee ***** at heart like me, lets say he MIGHT NOT come back, and think about other options. If I was the yanks I'd go after Ponson, but that's just me. Then I might be just a LITTLE afraid of them...not too terribly terrified, though.

[Stoud]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Except you forget the fact that the Sox are going after Foulke, who was, in all respects, absolutely LIGHTS OUT last season. You also dare to say Pedro, one of the top 5 pitchers in the WORLD, isn't good enough to beat the yanks? Give me a break, he just doesn't know his own limitations. I might also remind you that Colon had a paltry 15-13 win last year as compared to his 20-8 record in 2002. Even Ponson had a better record than that. IMO you have no chance at vasquez, and it's true you don't want millwood, Colon is your only shot. Good luck with that, he's not exactly consistant. OH, I am very afraid of a lineup that consists of Mussina, Colon, Contreras, and the deadly Lieber! .......

I still say you probably won't get Pettite back, not with the Astros making a huge push for him, and a whole lot of other teams. Even then you have a guy who can win you games, but unfortunately he unconsistantly gives up 1 or 2 runs one game and then 4 or 5 the next. Jesus, if it weren't for your run support he wouldn't be doing nearly as well. Personally, I think everyone is crazy to go after him as he will only put up productive numbers in an environment like New York. I still believe he will leave though, only to find out it was a mistake to do so. So for the Yankee ***** at heart like me, lets say he MIGHT NOT come back, and think about other options. If I was the yanks I'd go after Ponson, but that's just me. Then I might be just a LITTLE afraid of them...not too terribly terrified, though.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Stoud-
Are you really comparing Keith Foulke to Rivera? Colon was on an average White Sox team last year- on the Yanks, he wins 20. And if the Expos decide they have to trade Vazquez, either the Yanks or Braves will end up with him. Ponson is a bum. Why the heck would the Yanks want that fat bastard on their team? He had one good half last year with the O's and that was it.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Stoud-
Are you really comparing Keith Foulke to Rivera? Colon was on an average White Sox team last year- on the Yanks, he wins 20. And if the Expos decide they have to trade Vazquez, either the Yanks or Braves will end up with him. Ponson is a bum. Why the heck would the Yanks want that fat bastard on their team? He had one good half last year with the O's and that was it.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Stoud-
Are you really comparing Keith Foulke to Rivera? Colon was on an average White Sox team last year- on the Yanks, he wins 20. And if the Expos decide they have to trade Vazquez, either the Yanks or Braves will end up with him. Ponson is a bum. Why the heck would the Yanks want that fat bastard on their team? He had one good half last year with the O's and that was it.

[Stoud]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Because in New York he could win 20 easy, just like Colon. If you're intending to say that Foulke isn't at least close to the calibur pitcher that Rivera is, then I'd have to laugh at you. Here goes.

[Stoud]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Because in New York he could win 20 easy, just like Colon. If you're intending to say that Foulke isn't at least close to the calibur pitcher that Rivera is, then I'd have to laugh at you. Here goes.

[Stoud]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Because in New York he could win 20 easy, just like Colon. If you're intending to say that Foulke isn't at least close to the calibur pitcher that Rivera is, then I'd have to laugh at you. Here goes.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Foulke is a very good closer, but he ain't Rivera. To compare him to arguably the greatest closer of all time (definitely the greatest closer in postseason history) is a little off base. Plus, he's going back to Oakland anyways.

[dooch]

Re: Yankees Pitching Strategy

Foulke is a very good closer, but he ain't Rivera. To compare him to arguably the greatest closer of all time (definitely the greatest closer in postseason history) is a little off base. Plus, he's going back to Oakland anyways.