MVP/CY/ROY Talk

[seanjeezy]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Wow, I'm actually surprised. Didn't think any way that Melvin would take the Manager of the Year with Showalter doing what he did in Baltimore.

They were both equally impressive, it all depends on which team you though was going to be worse at the beginning of the year, although I thought all of the extra inning wins Baltimore had would push Buck over the edge.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

They were both equally impressive, it all depends on which team you though was going to be worse at the beginning of the year, although I thought all of the extra inning wins Baltimore had would push Buck over the edge.

I certainly thought Melvin was just as if not more deserving...it's just I expected an East Coast manager in the AL East resurrecting a long dead, classic franchise to get the votes.

[DrJones]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I certainly thought Melvin was just as if not more deserving...it's just I expected an East Coast manager in the AL East resurrecting a long dead, classic franchise to get the votes.

I did as well (there's a post somewhere earlier in this thread), but with a caveat that Melvin would win if the A's somehow won the AL West (which seemed damned unlikely with 10 games to go in the season). If the A's didn't win game 162 of the season, Showalter probably wins Manager of the Year. Which is silly, but both are deserving at any rate.

[seanjeezy]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Really good article by Jeff Passan regarding the MVP race. Some of the highlights:

It's why so many Cabrera supporters – many intelligent people whose refusal to accept what mathematics now tells us is borne of stubbornness, a quality to which any of us can cop – tried to muddy the Trout-Cabrera argument with Wins Above Replacement. WAR is a metric that purports to capture a player's value in a nice, neat number, compared to what a replacement-level player – a scrub from Triple-A – historically has produced. WAR can compare pitchers to hitters, players from the 1950s to the 2010s, shortstops to catchers to right fielders.

On and on they went, carping about Trout's relative struggles in August and September, about how he drove in 56 fewer runs, about how he spent the first month of the season in the minor leagues. All of which were true. All of which were accepted. None of which changed the math. Trout's batting average was a little shy of Cabrera's, his on-base percentage a smidgen higher, his slugging percentage 42 points lower – and his prowess on the basepaths and in the field more than made up the slight difference at the plate.

"I just couldn't justify ignoring defense entirely."
Trout's detractors delight in it. So conditioned are they to think of baseball as a binary game – hitter vs. pitcher, pitcher vs. hitter – that they miss the nuances of Trout's game that make him such a revelation. Either that or outright ignore them.

My colleagues in the BBWAA failed to do that, and when Cabrera wins – I'm guessing he gets at least 20 of the 28 first-place votes – it will not be a travesty, a sham, a mockery or a traveshamockery. It will just be wrong. A fight 15 years in the making will continue until not just the electorate but the public beyond accepts that when it comes to appreciating baseball, math is not some scary android trying to take away our game. It's here, more than anything, to help us understand it and love it even more.

[TheNumber35]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

MLBN Cy Young Special saying Price wins the Cy Young in the AL


EDIT: Price wins by 4 points over Verlander and 1 more first place vote than JV

[seanjeezy]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

MLBN Cy Young Special saying Price wins the Cy Young in the AL


EDIT: Price wins by 4 points over Verlander and 1 more first place vote than JV

IMO Verlander was once again the best pitcher in the league, no complaints though since JV, Price, and Felix were all pretty close in their underlying stats, with JV and Price being equally deserving.

Congrats to Mr. Price on a fine season!

Edit:

And it looks like Dickey is the NL Cy Young winner, looks like the BBWAA is still valuing wins with Dickey winning and Weaver finishing 3rd in the AL...

[TheNumber35]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

And Dickey's won the NL Cy Young

[snepp]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Weaver finishing 3rd in the AL...

He would have had my vote.



For 8th.

[seanjeezy]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

He would have had my vote.



For 8th.

Come on now, he's a solid 6th :wink:

[Perfect Zero]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

So far, with the exception of Price winning the AL Cy Young (not that he didn't deserve it, but I would have voted for Verlander), the voters have got it right. All that's left is to decide who was the most valuable player in both leagues.

[TCM]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

The MLB Network guys justifications for say Cabrera should win MVP over Mike Trout are ridiculous.

[jth1331]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Yeah, Price winning over Verlander...ugh. Its not really even close in my eyes with Price and Verlander but oh well.

[TheNumber35]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Yeah, Price winning over Verlander...ugh. Its not really even close in my eyes with Price and Verlander but oh well.

I read an interesting comment on fangraphs somewhere yesterday about the Price/Verlander thing:

Somebody said that they believed who won the AL Cy Young would offer insight into who could win the AL MVP. The person believed if Verlander won it then the voters will have been going off more advanced metrics over the ones price had advantage in (W and ERA) and thus, Trout would win MVP. But if Price won it, the traditional stats will have been overriding Verlander's lead in almost every other category and that Cabrera would thus win the MVP.

I don't necessarily agree with that, but I thought that was an interesting way to look at it

[mb625]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I honestly think, after lots of thought and deliberation, that Miguel Cabrera not winning the MVP would be a crime. Mike Trout had a spectacular season. No doubt about it. And any other year, I'd be all for him winning the award, but Cabrera did something this year that hasn't been done since 1967 in winning the Triple Crown. I enjoy sabermetrics as much as the next guy, but to me, this is no contest. Leading the league in 3 different categories (three of the toughest to win, there are plenty of guys who haven't led the league in any of the three...) is incredible to me and as much as Trout impressed and amazed me this season, I have to give Cabrera the nod. Now, of course, my opinion doesn't matter since I don't have a vote, but I hope that history doesn't repeat itself and what happened to Ted Williams (twice) doesn't happen to Cabrera.

[WazzuRC]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Mike Trout had the better overall season and I'm a total stats nerd, but I just can't not give it to Cabrera.