MVP/CY/ROY Talk

[ImTellinTim]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I'm sorry but Cabrera did something that's once in a generation and I doubt we'll see anyone doing it again any time soon. Even if he didn't win the Triple Crown i'd still give him the MVP.

Trout will have some MVP trophies on his mantlepiece at some point if he keeps up his production.

If we're going to have arbitrary counting contests, how about Trout doing a once in forever thing?

I don't think it's so much that people are trying to down play the Triple Crown as folks are trying to point out how rare this season is Trout has had. You say 15 people have won the Triple Crown, but did you know that Trout is the FIRST player in history to have 30+ HR's, 45+ SB's, and 100+ runs scored in a season?

You're right. Trout probably will have some MVP awards on his mantle when he's done. 2012 should be the first.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

I'm sorry but Cabrera did something that's once in a generation and I doubt we'll see anyone doing it again any time soon. Even if he didn't win the Triple Crown i'd still give him the MVP.

So did Trout.

The guy was quite plausibly the best hitter, defender, and base runner simultaneously in the game.

As a 20 year old rookie.

Give me Trout or give me death.

[rdnk]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Thanks for ignoring the second part of my post where I explain that Trout was not only better than Cabrera defensively but offensively as well...

Because I had no need to address it; it was spot on. I was just pointing out that the other half of your argument was weak. As far as switching the teams and whatnot, you can't really predict what would happen because then everything would be different. I guess you could speculate, but both teams would be doing some things differently, in my opinion, if they were in another division. Too many variables to say for sure.

[tvman]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Really, as if there NOT going to give the MVP award to a player who wins the Triple Crown and his team also goes to the playoffs.

Seriously this conversation isn't even worth discussing. Woops.

[jth1331]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

You say 15 people have won the Triple Crown, but did you know that Trout is the FIRST player in history to have 30+ HR's, 45+ SB's, and 100+ runs scored in a season?

I just want to point out this statement is false.

But yeah, the people going on OMGZ CABRERA DID SOMETHING SO RARE TRIPLE CROWNZ!

Trout, quite possibly had the greatest rookie season we will ever see. I'm talking about our generation that we physically see with our own two eyes.
He freakin did it all, and got the Angels out of a huge rut they were in. Think about this, Alex Rodriguez NEVER had a high of WAR as Trout did this year. Albert Pujols never has had either. Two of the best players of our generation never have had a WAR this high from a 20 year old freakin rookie.
And he missed 20+ games to boot too!

[Sportsforever]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Trout will have some MVP trophies on his mantlepiece at some point if he keeps up his production.

And Dan Marino will win a lot more Super Bowls...awful excuse to give it to someone else.

[SidVish]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

So this guy at work says that Cabrera should win MVP because Detroit made the playoffs. I come back with yeah they did but Anaheim has a better record and Detroit would be 4th if they played in the AL West. His reply yeah but he won the triple crown. I respond with the wins above replacement, better defense, and better base runner arguments. Oh I don't care about that dumb sabre stuff.

[seanjeezy]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Trout versus Cabrera: Offense only, context included

You can go through each player’s play logs and see exactly where they earned and lost credit. There’s no replacement level here. We’re not dealing with defensive metrics that require some subjective inputs and can’t be easily replicated. This is just pure offense, and the total value of all the plays that both Trout and Cabrera were involved in.


And Trout still comes out on top. Ignore defense. Ignore things like going first to third on a single, or taking the extra base on a fly ball. Ignore WAR. Trout still wins. This is how amazing his season actually was. Even if you strip away the things that make Mike Trout special, he was still the best offensive performer in the American League this year, even while starting the season in the minors. This isn’t just the best performance of 2012 – it’s one of the best individual performances in the history of baseball.

[SPTO]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

And Dan Marino will win a lot more Super Bowls...awful excuse to give it to someone else.

So I guess Trout will be a bust after this year?

Okay, I admit i'm using a bit of faulty logic but I still think Cabrera deserves it more and i'm sticking to my guns on this one.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

With the season being over, Cabrera is the Most Valuable Player of the American League. The stats are great with both Trout and Cabrera, but the person who was more valuable to his team was Cabrera. Without Trout, the Angels finish in third place and still have no shot. Without Cabrera, the Tigers are probably on the outside looking in or are in a Wild Card spot instead of being number two.

Best thing about MVP is it's not about who the best player is anyways.

[55]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

Without Cabrera, the Tigers are probably on the outside looking in or are in a Wild Card spot instead of being number two.

The Tigers are actually the #3 seed and have the worst record of all playoff teams. In fact, they only have the seventh best record in the American League.

[DrJones]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

His reply yeah but he won the triple crown. I respond with the wins above replacement, better defense, and better base runner arguments. Oh I don't care about that dumb sabre stuff.

You should've said, "Since when is defence and baserunning "dumb sabre stuff"? Why are you so obsessed with numbers? Don't you watch games?"

IMO Cabrera or Trout are both fine choices, but the way the battle lines have been drawn up is very strange (Tigers and Angels fans excepted). I always assumed "traditional" baseball scouts, fans, broadcasters, ex-players, etc. were the ones who constantly preached (and often romanticized) defence, baserunning, "5-tool players", and "hustle". Yet when it comes to awards season, most completely dismiss everything but three offensive stats, then demean Trout supporters as "stats nerds". Seems like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

[DrJones]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

With the season being over, Cabrera is the Most Valuable Player of the American League. The stats are great with both Trout and Cabrera, but the person who was more valuable to his team was Cabrera. Without Trout, the Angels finish in third place and still have no shot. Without Cabrera, the Tigers are probably on the outside looking in or are in a Wild Card spot instead of being number two.

If this is true, then Verlander was one of the worst choices in MVP history last year, when the Tigers won the AL Central by 15 games.

[snepp]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

IMO Cabrera or Trout are both fine choices, but the way the battle lines have been drawn up is very strange (Tigers and Angels fans excepted). I always assumed "traditional" baseball scouts, fans, broadcasters, ex-players, etc. were the ones who constantly preached (and often romanticized) defence, baserunning, "5-tool players", and "hustle". Yet when it comes to awards season, most completely dismiss everything but three offensive stats, then demean Trout supporters as "stats nerds". Seems like the pot calling the kettle black to me.

I would thumbs up this post a thousand times if I could.

[Perfect Zero]

Re: MVP/CY/ROY Talk

The Tigers are actually the #3 seed and have the worst record of all playoff teams. In fact, they only have the seventh best record in the American League.

In terms of playoff seeding you are correct. However, this does not change anything else about my point.