Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

**rsox** · 01-13-2004, 12:16 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
cub said:
Marlins are:

1. J. Beckett
2. B. Penny
3. M. Redman
4. D. Willis

Do they even have a projected fifth?

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually, Redman was traded to Oakland over a month ago, his spot belongs to Carl Pavano, as for a projected fifth, right now i would say it is Justin Wayne.

Now, back to the original topic,
right now i think that Houston has the better starting five, for two reasons: 1, the additions of Pettitte and Clemens give the homegrown talent (Oswalt, Miller, Robertson) veteran leadership, and will take the pressure off the kids,
2, the Cubs have four strong starters in Wood, Prior, Clement and Zambrano, but right now Juan Cruz is the weak link in the rotation, that said, he has tremendous potential, he has just never lived up to it at the Major League level,
for those reasons i choose the Astros.

**SPTO** · 01-13-2004, 12:20 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
cub said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
The inconsistency has a lot to do with their age. All of those guys are projected to be long term successes. Trust me if the Marlins can hang on to these guys then we'll be talking about that rotation much in the same way we talked about Atlanta's rotation for the better part of a decade.

<hr /></blockquote>

The way I see it, exactly the same could be said about the Cubs rotation except that they're better right now so they don't have as far to go. And they're all just as young (or younger) than the Marlins starters.

<hr /></blockquote>

Funny you say that when the Marlins pitchers had more wins than the Cubs.

**SPTO** · 01-13-2004, 12:20 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
cub said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
The inconsistency has a lot to do with their age. All of those guys are projected to be long term successes. Trust me if the Marlins can hang on to these guys then we'll be talking about that rotation much in the same way we talked about Atlanta's rotation for the better part of a decade.

<hr /></blockquote>

The way I see it, exactly the same could be said about the Cubs rotation except that they're better right now so they don't have as far to go. And they're all just as young (or younger) than the Marlins starters.

<hr /></blockquote>

Funny you say that when the Marlins pitchers had more wins than the Cubs.

**SPTO** · 01-13-2004, 12:20 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
cub said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
The inconsistency has a lot to do with their age. All of those guys are projected to be long term successes. Trust me if the Marlins can hang on to these guys then we'll be talking about that rotation much in the same way we talked about Atlanta's rotation for the better part of a decade.

<hr /></blockquote>

The way I see it, exactly the same could be said about the Cubs rotation except that they're better right now so they don't have as far to go. And they're all just as young (or younger) than the Marlins starters.

<hr /></blockquote>

Funny you say that when the Marlins pitchers had more wins than the Cubs.

**cub** · 01-13-2004, 12:26 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Funny you say that when the Marlins pitchers had more wins than the Cubs.

<hr /></blockquote>

Just because you're better doesn't necessarily mean you'll have more wins. The Marlins had a much better offense.

I don't think you can make the same statement this year. We got Derek Lee (and Corey is back), and the Marlins lost some pretty big lumber without really adding anyone big.

**cub** · 01-13-2004, 12:26 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Funny you say that when the Marlins pitchers had more wins than the Cubs.

<hr /></blockquote>

Just because you're better doesn't necessarily mean you'll have more wins. The Marlins had a much better offense.

I don't think you can make the same statement this year. We got Derek Lee (and Corey is back), and the Marlins lost some pretty big lumber without really adding anyone big.

**cub** · 01-13-2004, 12:26 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
SportsmanTO said:
Funny you say that when the Marlins pitchers had more wins than the Cubs.

<hr /></blockquote>

Just because you're better doesn't necessarily mean you'll have more wins. The Marlins had a much better offense.

I don't think you can make the same statement this year. We got Derek Lee (and Corey is back), and the Marlins lost some pretty big lumber without really adding anyone big.

**Misfit** · 01-13-2004, 01:11 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

I think the Marlins rotation has too many question marks surrounding it to say its better than either the Cubs or the Astros rotations. Burnett's health is a question mark and Beckett's is as well to some extent. Willis struggled towards the end of the season and it remains to be seen if he can get back to form. If their 5 pitch to their full potential, the Marlins will have the best rotation in the NL. They're my favorite to win the NL East.

**Misfit** · 01-13-2004, 01:11 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

I think the Marlins rotation has too many question marks surrounding it to say its better than either the Cubs or the Astros rotations. Burnett's health is a question mark and Beckett's is as well to some extent. Willis struggled towards the end of the season and it remains to be seen if he can get back to form. If their 5 pitch to their full potential, the Marlins will have the best rotation in the NL. They're my favorite to win the NL East.

**Misfit** · 01-13-2004, 01:11 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

I think the Marlins rotation has too many question marks surrounding it to say its better than either the Cubs or the Astros rotations. Burnett's health is a question mark and Beckett's is as well to some extent. Willis struggled towards the end of the season and it remains to be seen if he can get back to form. If their 5 pitch to their full potential, the Marlins will have the best rotation in the NL. They're my favorite to win the NL East.

**Stoud** · 01-13-2004, 01:39 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

For me it's like this:

Houston over Cubs if in Playoffs (Pettitte and Clemens have both proven to be KEY in the Playoffs)

Cubs over every other Pitching Staff in the universe if not in the Playoffs. These guys need to learn how to pitch past the regular season, which can be hard to do on a team that used to rarely ever get there. However, with their acquisition of Derrek Lee, Patterson back in CF, and Walker as a backup at second/pinch hit, they have alot of what it takes to get along, and along, and along long long! The key in the end next year may very well end up being Todd Walker. This guy hit homers in the Yanks/Boston series like they were set up on a tee. Against some of the best Playoff Pitching the majors have to offer, that is BIG. VERY BIG. I for one was completely amazed by his talent in the post. I had no idea he could do that. Now the Cubs have him, another power bat, and the quickly developing power of Patterson in CF. They have a Catcher who know what he's doing, they have it all. Whats my point with all of this? Shouldn't it be simple to understand at this point? They have the manpower to score the runs they need to help their already fantastic pitching get the win. With their acquisistions this off, I'd say they've given each of their starting pitchers at least 2 to 3 more wins. Clement will have his off days and his dead on days, if he can get consistent enough, he will really shake things up in Chicago. I take Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Matt Clement, Carlos Zambrano, and Cruz over any other staff if not in the Post. They all have yet to prove themselves in the post, but once they do, GAME OVER!

The Marlins have a nice rotation, but to choose them over the Cubs would be crazy IMO.

My top rotations go as such:

1. Cubs
2. Marlins
3. Houston

The Astros have all the power in the world, they're in a hitters park, and they have pitchers who can keep the score low...they had that last year! I watched them. I watched redding keep it at 3, I watched Villone keep it at two, I watched them all throw a no hitter.....and still the Astros couldn't make it to the playoffs. I trust their pitching well enough, what I don't trust is their offense. Somehow they still manage to lose. This is pretty amazing to me when you've got Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Kent, Richard Hidalgo, and Lance Berkman for power, not to mention Geoff Blum, Brian L. Hunter, and Brad Ausmus. This is a team that should be enough to win, but isn't. Why? Who knows. I think it's Berkman actually, for all the homers he hits, he can't hit much of anything else.

So until they prove that they can do more than Pitch consistently, I'm not picking the Astros over anyone.

**Stoud** · 01-13-2004, 01:39 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

For me it's like this:

Houston over Cubs if in Playoffs (Pettitte and Clemens have both proven to be KEY in the Playoffs)

Cubs over every other Pitching Staff in the universe if not in the Playoffs. These guys need to learn how to pitch past the regular season, which can be hard to do on a team that used to rarely ever get there. However, with their acquisition of Derrek Lee, Patterson back in CF, and Walker as a backup at second/pinch hit, they have alot of what it takes to get along, and along, and along long long! The key in the end next year may very well end up being Todd Walker. This guy hit homers in the Yanks/Boston series like they were set up on a tee. Against some of the best Playoff Pitching the majors have to offer, that is BIG. VERY BIG. I for one was completely amazed by his talent in the post. I had no idea he could do that. Now the Cubs have him, another power bat, and the quickly developing power of Patterson in CF. They have a Catcher who know what he's doing, they have it all. Whats my point with all of this? Shouldn't it be simple to understand at this point? They have the manpower to score the runs they need to help their already fantastic pitching get the win. With their acquisistions this off, I'd say they've given each of their starting pitchers at least 2 to 3 more wins. Clement will have his off days and his dead on days, if he can get consistent enough, he will really shake things up in Chicago. I take Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Matt Clement, Carlos Zambrano, and Cruz over any other staff if not in the Post. They all have yet to prove themselves in the post, but once they do, GAME OVER!

The Marlins have a nice rotation, but to choose them over the Cubs would be crazy IMO.

My top rotations go as such:

1. Cubs
2. Marlins
3. Houston

The Astros have all the power in the world, they're in a hitters park, and they have pitchers who can keep the score low...they had that last year! I watched them. I watched redding keep it at 3, I watched Villone keep it at two, I watched them all throw a no hitter.....and still the Astros couldn't make it to the playoffs. I trust their pitching well enough, what I don't trust is their offense. Somehow they still manage to lose. This is pretty amazing to me when you've got Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Kent, Richard Hidalgo, and Lance Berkman for power, not to mention Geoff Blum, Brian L. Hunter, and Brad Ausmus. This is a team that should be enough to win, but isn't. Why? Who knows. I think it's Berkman actually, for all the homers he hits, he can't hit much of anything else.

So until they prove that they can do more than Pitch consistently, I'm not picking the Astros over anyone.

**Stoud** · 01-13-2004, 01:39 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

For me it's like this:

Houston over Cubs if in Playoffs (Pettitte and Clemens have both proven to be KEY in the Playoffs)

Cubs over every other Pitching Staff in the universe if not in the Playoffs. These guys need to learn how to pitch past the regular season, which can be hard to do on a team that used to rarely ever get there. However, with their acquisition of Derrek Lee, Patterson back in CF, and Walker as a backup at second/pinch hit, they have alot of what it takes to get along, and along, and along long long! The key in the end next year may very well end up being Todd Walker. This guy hit homers in the Yanks/Boston series like they were set up on a tee. Against some of the best Playoff Pitching the majors have to offer, that is BIG. VERY BIG. I for one was completely amazed by his talent in the post. I had no idea he could do that. Now the Cubs have him, another power bat, and the quickly developing power of Patterson in CF. They have a Catcher who know what he's doing, they have it all. Whats my point with all of this? Shouldn't it be simple to understand at this point? They have the manpower to score the runs they need to help their already fantastic pitching get the win. With their acquisistions this off, I'd say they've given each of their starting pitchers at least 2 to 3 more wins. Clement will have his off days and his dead on days, if he can get consistent enough, he will really shake things up in Chicago. I take Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Matt Clement, Carlos Zambrano, and Cruz over any other staff if not in the Post. They all have yet to prove themselves in the post, but once they do, GAME OVER!

The Marlins have a nice rotation, but to choose them over the Cubs would be crazy IMO.

My top rotations go as such:

1. Cubs
2. Marlins
3. Houston

The Astros have all the power in the world, they're in a hitters park, and they have pitchers who can keep the score low...they had that last year! I watched them. I watched redding keep it at 3, I watched Villone keep it at two, I watched them all throw a no hitter.....and still the Astros couldn't make it to the playoffs. I trust their pitching well enough, what I don't trust is their offense. Somehow they still manage to lose. This is pretty amazing to me when you've got Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Kent, Richard Hidalgo, and Lance Berkman for power, not to mention Geoff Blum, Brian L. Hunter, and Brad Ausmus. This is a team that should be enough to win, but isn't. Why? Who knows. I think it's Berkman actually, for all the homers he hits, he can't hit much of anything else.

So until they prove that they can do more than Pitch consistently, I'm not picking the Astros over anyone.

**rsox** · 01-13-2004, 01:47 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

The Astros no longer have Blum or Hunter,
Blum is now with Tampa Bay and Hunter is with San Diego.

**rsox** · 01-13-2004, 01:47 AM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

The Astros no longer have Blum or Hunter,
Blum is now with Tampa Bay and Hunter is with San Diego.

Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

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