Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

**fugazi** · 01-13-2004, 01:12 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
It'll be interesting to see how the Florida pitchers do with an average guy behind the plate calling the signals. I'm one of those people that believe a catcher can have an impact on how well a pitcher performs

<hr /></blockquote>

Yeah, I don't think ARIZONA realized how much they might miss Damian Miller, he had great relationships with his pitchers---that being said the Cubs might miss him, too, unless they get pudge, which would be awesome but unlikely.

The real issue for the CUBS/ASTROS debate, IMO, is the ballpark. Wrigley is a hitters park, but MINUTE MAID is ridiculous. The T-Ball length foul lines will haunt the staff in general. Miller does OK, but Oswalt will miss the start of the season, and may not be healthy. ROCKET will get ROCKED. I'll take the Cubs for that reason alone.

**TexasJedi** · 01-13-2004, 02:06 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Stoud said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
rsox said:
The Astros no longer have Blum or Hunter,
Blum is now with Tampa Bay and Hunter is with San Diego.

<hr /></blockquote>

At the time I was talking about last season. I know they don't have them anymore. That just means more trouble for Houston.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not having those two is NOT a problem. Why? Hunter was terrible and while I like Blum, he took away playing time from Morgan Ensberg at 3rd. We actually upgrade our 4th outfielder by playing Jason Lane while infield depth is hurt a little by the loss of Blum, but not too bad.

**TexasJedi** · 01-13-2004, 02:06 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Stoud said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
rsox said:
The Astros no longer have Blum or Hunter,
Blum is now with Tampa Bay and Hunter is with San Diego.

<hr /></blockquote>

At the time I was talking about last season. I know they don't have them anymore. That just means more trouble for Houston.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not having those two is NOT a problem. Why? Hunter was terrible and while I like Blum, he took away playing time from Morgan Ensberg at 3rd. We actually upgrade our 4th outfielder by playing Jason Lane while infield depth is hurt a little by the loss of Blum, but not too bad.

**TexasJedi** · 01-13-2004, 02:06 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Stoud said:
<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
rsox said:
The Astros no longer have Blum or Hunter,
Blum is now with Tampa Bay and Hunter is with San Diego.

<hr /></blockquote>

At the time I was talking about last season. I know they don't have them anymore. That just means more trouble for Houston.

<hr /></blockquote>

Not having those two is NOT a problem. Why? Hunter was terrible and while I like Blum, he took away playing time from Morgan Ensberg at 3rd. We actually upgrade our 4th outfielder by playing Jason Lane while infield depth is hurt a little by the loss of Blum, but not too bad.

**Howie75** · 01-13-2004, 02:14 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Stoud said:
For me it's like this:

Houston over Cubs if in Playoffs (Pettitte and Clemens have both proven to be KEY in the Playoffs)

Cubs over every other Pitching Staff in the universe if not in the Playoffs. These guys need to learn how to pitch past the regular season, which can be hard to do on a team that used to rarely ever get there. However, with their acquisition of Derrek Lee, Patterson back in CF, and Walker as a backup at second/pinch hit, they have alot of what it takes to get along, and along, and along long long! The key in the end next year may very well end up being Todd Walker. This guy hit homers in the Yanks/Boston series like they were set up on a tee. Against some of the best Playoff Pitching the majors have to offer, that is BIG. VERY BIG. I for one was completely amazed by his talent in the post. I had no idea he could do that. Now the Cubs have him, another power bat, and the quickly developing power of Patterson in CF. They have a Catcher who know what he's doing, they have it all. Whats my point with all of this? Shouldn't it be simple to understand at this point? They have the manpower to score the runs they need to help their already fantastic pitching get the win. With their acquisistions this off, I'd say they've given each of their starting pitchers at least 2 to 3 more wins. Clement will have his off days and his dead on days, if he can get consistent enough, he will really shake things up in Chicago. I take Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Matt Clement, Carlos Zambrano, and Cruz over any other staff if not in the Post. They all have yet to prove themselves in the post, but once they do, GAME OVER!

The Marlins have a nice rotation, but to choose them over the Cubs would be crazy IMO.

My top rotations go as such:

1. Cubs
2. Marlins
3. Houston

The Astros have all the power in the world, they're in a hitters park, and they have pitchers who can keep the score low...they had that last year! I watched them. I watched redding keep it at 3, I watched Villone keep it at two, I watched them all throw a no hitter.....and still the Astros couldn't make it to the playoffs. I trust their pitching well enough, what I don't trust is their offense. Somehow they still manage to lose. This is pretty amazing to me when you've got Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Kent, Richard Hidalgo, and Lance Berkman for power, not to mention Geoff Blum, Brian L. Hunter, and Brad Ausmus. This is a team that should be enough to win, but isn't. Why? Who knows. I think it's Berkman actually, for all the homers he hits, he can't hit much of anything else.

So until they prove that they can do more than Pitch consistently, I'm not picking the Astros over anyone.

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually Berkman is one of the more reliable hitters. He has a good on base percentage, walks a decent amount and also hits his fair share of doubles.

**Howie75** · 01-13-2004, 02:14 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Stoud said:
For me it's like this:

Houston over Cubs if in Playoffs (Pettitte and Clemens have both proven to be KEY in the Playoffs)

Cubs over every other Pitching Staff in the universe if not in the Playoffs. These guys need to learn how to pitch past the regular season, which can be hard to do on a team that used to rarely ever get there. However, with their acquisition of Derrek Lee, Patterson back in CF, and Walker as a backup at second/pinch hit, they have alot of what it takes to get along, and along, and along long long! The key in the end next year may very well end up being Todd Walker. This guy hit homers in the Yanks/Boston series like they were set up on a tee. Against some of the best Playoff Pitching the majors have to offer, that is BIG. VERY BIG. I for one was completely amazed by his talent in the post. I had no idea he could do that. Now the Cubs have him, another power bat, and the quickly developing power of Patterson in CF. They have a Catcher who know what he's doing, they have it all. Whats my point with all of this? Shouldn't it be simple to understand at this point? They have the manpower to score the runs they need to help their already fantastic pitching get the win. With their acquisistions this off, I'd say they've given each of their starting pitchers at least 2 to 3 more wins. Clement will have his off days and his dead on days, if he can get consistent enough, he will really shake things up in Chicago. I take Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Matt Clement, Carlos Zambrano, and Cruz over any other staff if not in the Post. They all have yet to prove themselves in the post, but once they do, GAME OVER!

The Marlins have a nice rotation, but to choose them over the Cubs would be crazy IMO.

My top rotations go as such:

1. Cubs
2. Marlins
3. Houston

The Astros have all the power in the world, they're in a hitters park, and they have pitchers who can keep the score low...they had that last year! I watched them. I watched redding keep it at 3, I watched Villone keep it at two, I watched them all throw a no hitter.....and still the Astros couldn't make it to the playoffs. I trust their pitching well enough, what I don't trust is their offense. Somehow they still manage to lose. This is pretty amazing to me when you've got Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Kent, Richard Hidalgo, and Lance Berkman for power, not to mention Geoff Blum, Brian L. Hunter, and Brad Ausmus. This is a team that should be enough to win, but isn't. Why? Who knows. I think it's Berkman actually, for all the homers he hits, he can't hit much of anything else.

So until they prove that they can do more than Pitch consistently, I'm not picking the Astros over anyone.

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually Berkman is one of the more reliable hitters. He has a good on base percentage, walks a decent amount and also hits his fair share of doubles.

**Howie75** · 01-13-2004, 02:14 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />
Stoud said:
For me it's like this:

Houston over Cubs if in Playoffs (Pettitte and Clemens have both proven to be KEY in the Playoffs)

Cubs over every other Pitching Staff in the universe if not in the Playoffs. These guys need to learn how to pitch past the regular season, which can be hard to do on a team that used to rarely ever get there. However, with their acquisition of Derrek Lee, Patterson back in CF, and Walker as a backup at second/pinch hit, they have alot of what it takes to get along, and along, and along long long! The key in the end next year may very well end up being Todd Walker. This guy hit homers in the Yanks/Boston series like they were set up on a tee. Against some of the best Playoff Pitching the majors have to offer, that is BIG. VERY BIG. I for one was completely amazed by his talent in the post. I had no idea he could do that. Now the Cubs have him, another power bat, and the quickly developing power of Patterson in CF. They have a Catcher who know what he's doing, they have it all. Whats my point with all of this? Shouldn't it be simple to understand at this point? They have the manpower to score the runs they need to help their already fantastic pitching get the win. With their acquisistions this off, I'd say they've given each of their starting pitchers at least 2 to 3 more wins. Clement will have his off days and his dead on days, if he can get consistent enough, he will really shake things up in Chicago. I take Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Matt Clement, Carlos Zambrano, and Cruz over any other staff if not in the Post. They all have yet to prove themselves in the post, but once they do, GAME OVER!

The Marlins have a nice rotation, but to choose them over the Cubs would be crazy IMO.

My top rotations go as such:

1. Cubs
2. Marlins
3. Houston

The Astros have all the power in the world, they're in a hitters park, and they have pitchers who can keep the score low...they had that last year! I watched them. I watched redding keep it at 3, I watched Villone keep it at two, I watched them all throw a no hitter.....and still the Astros couldn't make it to the playoffs. I trust their pitching well enough, what I don't trust is their offense. Somehow they still manage to lose. This is pretty amazing to me when you've got Jeff Bagwell, Jeff Kent, Richard Hidalgo, and Lance Berkman for power, not to mention Geoff Blum, Brian L. Hunter, and Brad Ausmus. This is a team that should be enough to win, but isn't. Why? Who knows. I think it's Berkman actually, for all the homers he hits, he can't hit much of anything else.

So until they prove that they can do more than Pitch consistently, I'm not picking the Astros over anyone.

<hr /></blockquote>

Actually Berkman is one of the more reliable hitters. He has a good on base percentage, walks a decent amount and also hits his fair share of doubles.

**fishepa** · 01-13-2004, 02:55 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

The A's.

**fishepa** · 01-13-2004, 02:55 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

The A's.

**fishepa** · 01-13-2004, 02:55 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

The A's.

**3rdAnswer** · 01-13-2004, 03:15 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

 I take the Cubs, just because of Carlos Zambrono. His energy gives the Cubs a little bit of an edge. Other than that, it's pretty even, but the NL Central will defintely come down to these two teams. I think one of them MAY WildCard, but the Braves or Phillies would have to be pretty sorry for that to happen.

**3rdAnswer** · 01-13-2004, 03:15 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

 I take the Cubs, just because of Carlos Zambrono. His energy gives the Cubs a little bit of an edge. Other than that, it's pretty even, but the NL Central will defintely come down to these two teams. I think one of them MAY WildCard, but the Braves or Phillies would have to be pretty sorry for that to happen.

**3rdAnswer** · 01-13-2004, 03:15 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

 I take the Cubs, just because of Carlos Zambrono. His energy gives the Cubs a little bit of an edge. Other than that, it's pretty even, but the NL Central will defintely come down to these two teams. I think one of them MAY WildCard, but the Braves or Phillies would have to be pretty sorry for that to happen.

**cub** · 01-13-2004, 03:57 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

One thing's for sure... it's going to be a wild NL central race this year.

Can't wait to see Wood/Clemens and Pettitte/Pryor matched up three or four times this year.

**cub** · 01-13-2004, 03:57 PM

Re: Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

One thing's for sure... it's going to be a wild NL central race this year.

Can't wait to see Wood/Clemens and Pettitte/Pryor matched up three or four times this year.

Who has the best starting 5 now: Cubs or Astros?

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