Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

[neuwave]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
fossen said:
Because the Yankees are not an independent entity. They are part of the MLB - and their actions are seen as a detriment to the sport as a whole.

I have no problem with the Yankees - Steinbrenner is playing by the rules, and is putting his money where his mouth is. He also has a solid business model - build the best quality product you can, and then the sales (tickets, TV, jerseys, hats, etc.) come rolling in.

But it's hard to deny, when looking at the success of the NFL, that parity and a more level playing field boosts fan support of the sport as a whole.

And any league has, at heart, some socialism - everyone plays by the same rules - same roster size, same players on the field, same amount of strikes. This "socialist" movement you refer to is merely an attempt to extend these rules into the financial arena.

BUT - John Henry is a buffoon and an *** and a sore loser.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Spot on.

[K_GUN]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

i just don't understand why players/owners don't want this fixed

the state of the game could be so much better

i just wish the players would have BALLS and not depend so much on the agents...they're the real enemy

but it won't ...things won't change

[K_GUN]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

i just don't understand why players/owners don't want this fixed

the state of the game could be so much better

i just wish the players would have BALLS and not depend so much on the agents...they're the real enemy

but it won't ...things won't change

[K_GUN]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

i just don't understand why players/owners don't want this fixed

the state of the game could be so much better

i just wish the players would have BALLS and not depend so much on the agents...they're the real enemy

but it won't ...things won't change

[LetsGoPitt]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
fossen said:
Because the Yankees are not an independent entity. They are part of the MLB - and their actions are seen as a detriment to the sport as a whole.

I have no problem with the Yankees - Steinbrenner is playing by the rules, and is putting his money where his mouth is. He also has a solid business model - build the best quality product you can, and then the sales (tickets, TV, jerseys, hats, etc.) come rolling in.

But it's hard to deny, when looking at the success of the NFL, that parity and a more level playing field boosts fan support of the sport as a whole.

And any league has, at heart, some socialism - everyone plays by the same rules - same roster size, same players on the field, same amount of strikes. This "socialist" movement you refer to is merely an attempt to extend these rules into the financial arena.

BUT - John Henry is a buffoon and an *** and a sore loser.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I agree, 100%

We can love or hate the Yankees, but let's face it -- everything they do is perfectly fine under the current rules of Major League Baseball. THAT'S the problem, not the Yankees.

Baseball needs to realize that it's killing itself under the current system. If you're living in New York, Boston, or now Anaheim and possibly Baltimore, you're going to be happy. But for the rest of us, the upcoming season is just 162 games of futility. And no, signing Raul Mondesi and Chris Stynes doesn't quite do it for me.

And to go back to your metaphor of baseball being capitalist...I'm guessing in your paradigm, the Yankees are America. Fine. So when do the Pirates and Brewers get the millions of dollars of support a la Mexico and several other third-world countries being kept afloat by American generosity? And don't come back with the Luxury Tax, because that's bogus.

Baseball is a distant third to football and basketball simply because it's only fun for about 10% of the teams' fans. Football has true parity achieved through a hard salary cap, and competant management. Basketball is less so. However, both are team-oriented sports, where the best team on paper doesn't necessarily make the best team on the field/court. Look at the Lakers...they're 6 games out of first. THIS is where baseball truly differs from the other sports -- the ego works in baseball. In its simplist form, baseball is really a group of individuals who happen to wear the same uniform. It's one person pitching the ball,trying to hit the ball, and generally speaking, trying to catch the ball. Players don't have to mesh in baseball the way they do in other sports. If you put together the best individual offensive linemen together, chances are they won't work as well together as a group that's been together for a while (look at what the Patriots did). But baseball teams can be put together piecemeal. You need a third baseman? Go trade for Arod. Sure, you're giving up a younger talent, but heckm you can always buy a new second baseman next year (or get one later from the same teams that were out of the race in May last season).

What the Yankees do is great for their team, but it's bad for baseball.

[LetsGoPitt]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
fossen said:
Because the Yankees are not an independent entity. They are part of the MLB - and their actions are seen as a detriment to the sport as a whole.

I have no problem with the Yankees - Steinbrenner is playing by the rules, and is putting his money where his mouth is. He also has a solid business model - build the best quality product you can, and then the sales (tickets, TV, jerseys, hats, etc.) come rolling in.

But it's hard to deny, when looking at the success of the NFL, that parity and a more level playing field boosts fan support of the sport as a whole.

And any league has, at heart, some socialism - everyone plays by the same rules - same roster size, same players on the field, same amount of strikes. This "socialist" movement you refer to is merely an attempt to extend these rules into the financial arena.

BUT - John Henry is a buffoon and an *** and a sore loser.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I agree, 100%

We can love or hate the Yankees, but let's face it -- everything they do is perfectly fine under the current rules of Major League Baseball. THAT'S the problem, not the Yankees.

Baseball needs to realize that it's killing itself under the current system. If you're living in New York, Boston, or now Anaheim and possibly Baltimore, you're going to be happy. But for the rest of us, the upcoming season is just 162 games of futility. And no, signing Raul Mondesi and Chris Stynes doesn't quite do it for me.

And to go back to your metaphor of baseball being capitalist...I'm guessing in your paradigm, the Yankees are America. Fine. So when do the Pirates and Brewers get the millions of dollars of support a la Mexico and several other third-world countries being kept afloat by American generosity? And don't come back with the Luxury Tax, because that's bogus.

Baseball is a distant third to football and basketball simply because it's only fun for about 10% of the teams' fans. Football has true parity achieved through a hard salary cap, and competant management. Basketball is less so. However, both are team-oriented sports, where the best team on paper doesn't necessarily make the best team on the field/court. Look at the Lakers...they're 6 games out of first. THIS is where baseball truly differs from the other sports -- the ego works in baseball. In its simplist form, baseball is really a group of individuals who happen to wear the same uniform. It's one person pitching the ball,trying to hit the ball, and generally speaking, trying to catch the ball. Players don't have to mesh in baseball the way they do in other sports. If you put together the best individual offensive linemen together, chances are they won't work as well together as a group that's been together for a while (look at what the Patriots did). But baseball teams can be put together piecemeal. You need a third baseman? Go trade for Arod. Sure, you're giving up a younger talent, but heckm you can always buy a new second baseman next year (or get one later from the same teams that were out of the race in May last season).

What the Yankees do is great for their team, but it's bad for baseball.

[LetsGoPitt]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
fossen said:
Because the Yankees are not an independent entity. They are part of the MLB - and their actions are seen as a detriment to the sport as a whole.

I have no problem with the Yankees - Steinbrenner is playing by the rules, and is putting his money where his mouth is. He also has a solid business model - build the best quality product you can, and then the sales (tickets, TV, jerseys, hats, etc.) come rolling in.

But it's hard to deny, when looking at the success of the NFL, that parity and a more level playing field boosts fan support of the sport as a whole.

And any league has, at heart, some socialism - everyone plays by the same rules - same roster size, same players on the field, same amount of strikes. This "socialist" movement you refer to is merely an attempt to extend these rules into the financial arena.

BUT - John Henry is a buffoon and an *** and a sore loser.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
I agree, 100%

We can love or hate the Yankees, but let's face it -- everything they do is perfectly fine under the current rules of Major League Baseball. THAT'S the problem, not the Yankees.

Baseball needs to realize that it's killing itself under the current system. If you're living in New York, Boston, or now Anaheim and possibly Baltimore, you're going to be happy. But for the rest of us, the upcoming season is just 162 games of futility. And no, signing Raul Mondesi and Chris Stynes doesn't quite do it for me.

And to go back to your metaphor of baseball being capitalist...I'm guessing in your paradigm, the Yankees are America. Fine. So when do the Pirates and Brewers get the millions of dollars of support a la Mexico and several other third-world countries being kept afloat by American generosity? And don't come back with the Luxury Tax, because that's bogus.

Baseball is a distant third to football and basketball simply because it's only fun for about 10% of the teams' fans. Football has true parity achieved through a hard salary cap, and competant management. Basketball is less so. However, both are team-oriented sports, where the best team on paper doesn't necessarily make the best team on the field/court. Look at the Lakers...they're 6 games out of first. THIS is where baseball truly differs from the other sports -- the ego works in baseball. In its simplist form, baseball is really a group of individuals who happen to wear the same uniform. It's one person pitching the ball,trying to hit the ball, and generally speaking, trying to catch the ball. Players don't have to mesh in baseball the way they do in other sports. If you put together the best individual offensive linemen together, chances are they won't work as well together as a group that's been together for a while (look at what the Patriots did). But baseball teams can be put together piecemeal. You need a third baseman? Go trade for Arod. Sure, you're giving up a younger talent, but heckm you can always buy a new second baseman next year (or get one later from the same teams that were out of the race in May last season).

What the Yankees do is great for their team, but it's bad for baseball.

[TexasJedi]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

It seems to me that part of the trouble in MLB is that each franchise views themselves as a separate entity instead of a vital peice of an entire league. MLB should see itself as one league competing against other leagues(NBA, NFL, NHL etc.) for a share of the same marketplace, not 30 teams living on an island.

It is to their own detremite to continue resisting a salary cap of some sort, not to mention equitable revenue sharing. As long as they fail to do so, and take the necessary steps to make the entire league more attractive through parity and fair competition, rather than trying to market mainly the Red Sox and Yankees and select other clubs, they will not be able to compete with the NFL, which seems to be the model for equitable success. That is hardly a communist ideal.

[TexasJedi]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

It seems to me that part of the trouble in MLB is that each franchise views themselves as a separate entity instead of a vital peice of an entire league. MLB should see itself as one league competing against other leagues(NBA, NFL, NHL etc.) for a share of the same marketplace, not 30 teams living on an island.

It is to their own detremite to continue resisting a salary cap of some sort, not to mention equitable revenue sharing. As long as they fail to do so, and take the necessary steps to make the entire league more attractive through parity and fair competition, rather than trying to market mainly the Red Sox and Yankees and select other clubs, they will not be able to compete with the NFL, which seems to be the model for equitable success. That is hardly a communist ideal.

[TexasJedi]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

It seems to me that part of the trouble in MLB is that each franchise views themselves as a separate entity instead of a vital peice of an entire league. MLB should see itself as one league competing against other leagues(NBA, NFL, NHL etc.) for a share of the same marketplace, not 30 teams living on an island.

It is to their own detremite to continue resisting a salary cap of some sort, not to mention equitable revenue sharing. As long as they fail to do so, and take the necessary steps to make the entire league more attractive through parity and fair competition, rather than trying to market mainly the Red Sox and Yankees and select other clubs, they will not be able to compete with the NFL, which seems to be the model for equitable success. That is hardly a communist ideal.

[Stoud]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

So...about the actual topic at hand here...


There is a big....nay, HUGE AS ALL HELL...difference between wanting fairness among all people and fairness among sports teams. The biggest of which is that there are countless ways for actual people to use their freedoms and their friggin' brains to get ahead in life, nobody said it was easy, but it's more than possible. For Baseball teams it's a little more....okay, I'll tell the truth, it's near impossible to just dig yourself out of the cellar and make a completely awesome team that creates huge MAJOR revenue for you like the Yanks do. Most teams in Baseball that can afford to pay huge paychecks already had the cash to do so well in advance, now how exactly are those who didn't have the cash supposed to use anything they have to make a buttload of more cash to compete with teams that already had it? There's nothing reasonable they can do, and the only thing they can do would take well over 30 years to really complete. It's unreasonable and unfair, and THAT is the difference between real life and baseball. Getting ahead in life with no cash is EASY compared to getting ahead as an MLB team with no cash. It's not scialist or communist, and it never will be, because you will never be able to tell an MLB team to "Get a Job".

Communists and people like that are people who want everything handed to them, and that is very unreasonable. They do not compare in any way to MLB teams, they just don't. With a Salary cap at least they have a chance to actualy DO SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT with the cash they already have. Many teams like the Tigers and the D-rays this year have said screw waiting, we're going to put uop our damndest fight anyways. Point is, nobody can get ahead, and the game might not be anywhere near as exciting a few years down the road if all the best players are only on a few different teams because said teams have all the cash, and already had the cash to begin with. People whining about Salary caps right now are most likely just whining about the Arod deal. It's pretty stupid, they give up all hope because the Yanks make another huge deal. Give me a break. I'm sure even Yanks fans will acknowledge that there's just a good a chance as ever for any team to win this year, with all the improvements most of the teams in the entire MLB have even MADE this offseason. Okay so some Yanks fans are too pigheaded to admit that, but hardcore fans aren't.

Point is, people overreacted about the Arod deal and thus you see "DAMNIT! SALARY CAP! NOW!" everywhere. It isn't a really urgent need, but it might be some years down the road. So worry about it then for cripes sake. Henry is a moron for going out there and saying that, and he does make himself out to be everything Steinbrenner called him on for what he said. He deserves all the hazing he gets for being such a fanboy of his own damn team. Grow the hell up Johnny boy. It's funny, going after Saddam really wasn't an urgent need but Bush did it anyway, so consider these Arod Bitches like Bush. They want to go out and take out any "dangers" that may pose a "threat" to them. Never you mind it for crying out loud, it doesn't even matter. Of course people are going to overreact, that's life, get used to it.

[Stoud]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

So...about the actual topic at hand here...


There is a big....nay, HUGE AS ALL HELL...difference between wanting fairness among all people and fairness among sports teams. The biggest of which is that there are countless ways for actual people to use their freedoms and their friggin' brains to get ahead in life, nobody said it was easy, but it's more than possible. For Baseball teams it's a little more....okay, I'll tell the truth, it's near impossible to just dig yourself out of the cellar and make a completely awesome team that creates huge MAJOR revenue for you like the Yanks do. Most teams in Baseball that can afford to pay huge paychecks already had the cash to do so well in advance, now how exactly are those who didn't have the cash supposed to use anything they have to make a buttload of more cash to compete with teams that already had it? There's nothing reasonable they can do, and the only thing they can do would take well over 30 years to really complete. It's unreasonable and unfair, and THAT is the difference between real life and baseball. Getting ahead in life with no cash is EASY compared to getting ahead as an MLB team with no cash. It's not scialist or communist, and it never will be, because you will never be able to tell an MLB team to "Get a Job".

Communists and people like that are people who want everything handed to them, and that is very unreasonable. They do not compare in any way to MLB teams, they just don't. With a Salary cap at least they have a chance to actualy DO SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT with the cash they already have. Many teams like the Tigers and the D-rays this year have said screw waiting, we're going to put uop our damndest fight anyways. Point is, nobody can get ahead, and the game might not be anywhere near as exciting a few years down the road if all the best players are only on a few different teams because said teams have all the cash, and already had the cash to begin with. People whining about Salary caps right now are most likely just whining about the Arod deal. It's pretty stupid, they give up all hope because the Yanks make another huge deal. Give me a break. I'm sure even Yanks fans will acknowledge that there's just a good a chance as ever for any team to win this year, with all the improvements most of the teams in the entire MLB have even MADE this offseason. Okay so some Yanks fans are too pigheaded to admit that, but hardcore fans aren't.

Point is, people overreacted about the Arod deal and thus you see "DAMNIT! SALARY CAP! NOW!" everywhere. It isn't a really urgent need, but it might be some years down the road. So worry about it then for cripes sake. Henry is a moron for going out there and saying that, and he does make himself out to be everything Steinbrenner called him on for what he said. He deserves all the hazing he gets for being such a fanboy of his own damn team. Grow the hell up Johnny boy. It's funny, going after Saddam really wasn't an urgent need but Bush did it anyway, so consider these Arod Bitches like Bush. They want to go out and take out any "dangers" that may pose a "threat" to them. Never you mind it for crying out loud, it doesn't even matter. Of course people are going to overreact, that's life, get used to it.

[Stoud]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

So...about the actual topic at hand here...


There is a big....nay, HUGE AS ALL HELL...difference between wanting fairness among all people and fairness among sports teams. The biggest of which is that there are countless ways for actual people to use their freedoms and their friggin' brains to get ahead in life, nobody said it was easy, but it's more than possible. For Baseball teams it's a little more....okay, I'll tell the truth, it's near impossible to just dig yourself out of the cellar and make a completely awesome team that creates huge MAJOR revenue for you like the Yanks do. Most teams in Baseball that can afford to pay huge paychecks already had the cash to do so well in advance, now how exactly are those who didn't have the cash supposed to use anything they have to make a buttload of more cash to compete with teams that already had it? There's nothing reasonable they can do, and the only thing they can do would take well over 30 years to really complete. It's unreasonable and unfair, and THAT is the difference between real life and baseball. Getting ahead in life with no cash is EASY compared to getting ahead as an MLB team with no cash. It's not scialist or communist, and it never will be, because you will never be able to tell an MLB team to "Get a Job".

Communists and people like that are people who want everything handed to them, and that is very unreasonable. They do not compare in any way to MLB teams, they just don't. With a Salary cap at least they have a chance to actualy DO SOMETHING SIGNIFICANT with the cash they already have. Many teams like the Tigers and the D-rays this year have said screw waiting, we're going to put uop our damndest fight anyways. Point is, nobody can get ahead, and the game might not be anywhere near as exciting a few years down the road if all the best players are only on a few different teams because said teams have all the cash, and already had the cash to begin with. People whining about Salary caps right now are most likely just whining about the Arod deal. It's pretty stupid, they give up all hope because the Yanks make another huge deal. Give me a break. I'm sure even Yanks fans will acknowledge that there's just a good a chance as ever for any team to win this year, with all the improvements most of the teams in the entire MLB have even MADE this offseason. Okay so some Yanks fans are too pigheaded to admit that, but hardcore fans aren't.

Point is, people overreacted about the Arod deal and thus you see "DAMNIT! SALARY CAP! NOW!" everywhere. It isn't a really urgent need, but it might be some years down the road. So worry about it then for cripes sake. Henry is a moron for going out there and saying that, and he does make himself out to be everything Steinbrenner called him on for what he said. He deserves all the hazing he gets for being such a fanboy of his own damn team. Grow the hell up Johnny boy. It's funny, going after Saddam really wasn't an urgent need but Bush did it anyway, so consider these Arod Bitches like Bush. They want to go out and take out any "dangers" that may pose a "threat" to them. Never you mind it for crying out loud, it doesn't even matter. Of course people are going to overreact, that's life, get used to it.

[SoMiss2000]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

The joke will be on you Yankee fans when you're not playing in late October.

[SoMiss2000]

Re: Since When Did Everyone Become a Socialist/Communist?

The joke will be on you Yankee fans when you're not playing in late October.