MLB Off-Topic

[CMH]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Matrix, you are talking about yourself. MLB already has you.

If the idea is to attract new fans, why do you think they would try to attract you when you wouldn't be a new fan?

The counter to why do they try to get kids attention is, I don't watch MLB so they can appease me. It already does. So why should they try to get my attention?

Baseball fans are really funny. So many go absolutely nuts over every little thing while claiming they dont care about the little things. If you guys love the sport so much, why does it bother you? Just watch the sport as you claim you only do.

At least that's what I do. A players name on a Jersey isn't going to distract me from the fact that I'm interested in what a pitcher is going to do on a 2-2 count.

But some of you act as if the name on a Jersey is killing the game. "I can't focus on this pitch because this guy put his nickname on his Jersey!"

That doesn't sound weird?

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[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Matrix, you are talking about yourself. MLB already has you.

If the idea is to attract new fans, why do you think they would try to attract you when you wouldn't be a new fan?

The counter to why do they try to get kids attention is, I don't watch MLB so they can appease me. It already does. So why should they try to get my attention?

Baseball fans are really funny. So many go absolutely nuts over every little thing while claiming they dont care about the little things. If you guys love the sport so much, why does it bother you? Just watch the sport as you claim you only do.

At least that's what I do. A players name on a Jersey isn't going to distract me from the fact that I'm interested in what a pitcher is going to do on a 2-2 count.

But some of you act as if the name on a Jersey is killing the game. "I can't focus on this pitch because this guy put his nickname on his Jersey!"

That doesn't sound weird?

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EXACTLY THIS.

Baseball fans are losing their honest **** about a New Era logo on the hats, or nicknames on jerseys, or how the UnderArmour logo is going to be on the Yankees jerseys when UA becomes the supplier? That's just petty. That's a clown complaint, bro.

Or how fans react negatively to bat flips, or showboating in general. Sorry this isn't 1950, things that don't adapt usually die off.

It honestly doesn't matter what's on the back of the jersey, or the front, or any of that. For God's sake, baseball survived Turn Ahead the Clock. I'm sure they'll be fine after 3 days of a handful of players having a different name on their jersey.

I still haven't heard a great reason why this is bad. Is it because this isn't how they used to do things? How does this affect the way the game is played IN ANY WAY? I don't think letters on the back of a jersey will prevent anyone from playing the game, which is what all the "against it" fans claim that they love so much.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

EXACTLY THIS.

Baseball fans are losing their honest **** about a New Era logo on the hats, or nicknames on jerseys, or how the UnderArmour logo is going to be on the Yankees jerseys when UA becomes the supplier? That's just petty. That's a clown complaint, bro.

Or how fans react negatively to bat flips, or showboating in general. Sorry this isn't 1950, things that don't adapt usually die off.

It honestly doesn't matter what's on the back of the jersey, or the front, or any of that. For God's sake, baseball survived Turn Ahead the Clock. I'm sure they'll be fine after 3 days of a handful of players having a different name on their jersey.

I still haven't heard a great reason why this is bad. Is it because this isn't how they used to do things? How does this affect the way the game is played IN ANY WAY? I don't think letters on the back of a jersey will prevent anyone from playing the game, which is what all the "against it" fans claim that they love so much.

I don't think anyone thinks this one weekend is going to ruin anything. Honestly, we probably won't even notice it...

My issue with it (and it's minor...I've already said I don't like it, but for those who do enjoy) is that I don't think it accomplishes what they think it does. For me, it's akin to throwing NASCAR patches on uniforms...it just looks bad and feels like a publicity stunt.

Look, if this is what the players want and it's for them...let 'em have a ball. Let's not pretend, however, that this is going to generate any new fans, period.

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

No problem using nicknames on the jerseys for a weekend, my problem would be with the fact that they would keep it G-rated. My thing is, if they really wanna let the players "personalities" shine through let them put whatever they want. Something alluding to MAGA, go ahead, same for other sides, points of view etc. Lets really go all out.

I do have a problem with ESPN not focusing on the game. Split-screen interviews in the middle of the the game. Constantly showing the announcing crew (why?). The constant chit-chat.

^^^ Have I told you that already? I don't mind the nicknames if you keep the cameras on the game. I hope that ain't too much to ask

[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

No problem using nicknames on the jerseys for a weekend, my problem would be with the fact that they would keep it G-rated. My thing is, if they really wanna let the players "personalities" shine through let them put whatever they want. Something alluding to MAGA, go ahead, same for other sides, points of view etc. Lets really go all out.

I do have a problem with ESPN not focusing on the game. Split-screen interviews in the middle of the the game. Constantly showing the announcing crew (why?). The constant chit-chat.

^^^ Have I told you that already? I don't mind the nicknames if you keep the cameras on the game. I hope that ain't too much to ask

You know good and well that if the technology existed as it does today, they would have done that in the 40s and 50s too.

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It doesn't matter if they could do it, as much as they shouldn't do it. The chit-chat I feel is a concerted effort to make the telecast more talk-showy. The split-screen interview in the middle of the game is an ignominy that neither the NBA or NFL has to endure.

Just to be clear, when I say split-screen interviews in the middle of the game I don't mean the "managers half inning" interview or the "the manager doesn't like to do the middle of the game interview so here is Justin Verlander" interview. I mean an actual previously taped interview THAT THEY ARE SHOWING SIDE BY SIDE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE !@#$%^& GAME.

The constant showing of the crew is more of the lets make the telecast talk-showy and let me show you how much fun this guys are having! LOOK AT HOW MUCH FUN THEY ARE HAVING IN THE BOOTH. It is a riot.

Come on ESPN, admit it, you think baseball is boring and without these gimmicks you don't think you can make the numbers. Tell me, is this what your focus groups are telling you to do? Of course they are.

Let me help you, create a new separate chyron for #espnsundaynightbaseball (too long, maybe just #espnbaseball so you can use it any day of the week and it becomes a "thing") Tweets only. Let them run with minimal supervision, then those inside the park can take photos and tag them, Tweet from the park which they already do anyway, you bring in the kids/millennials (like me) and you can show how hip and woke you are.

But please, just keep the camera on the game, if not let another network take a crack at it.

[CMH]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I don't think anyone thinks this one weekend is going to ruin anything. Honestly, we probably won't even notice it...

My issue with it (and it's minor...I've already said I don't like it, but for those who do enjoy) is that I don't think it accomplishes what they think it does. For me, it's akin to throwing NASCAR patches on uniforms...it just looks bad and feels like a publicity stunt.

Look, if this is what the players want and it's for them...let 'em have a ball. Let's not pretend, however, that this is going to generate any new fans, period.

I agree. I don't think non fans give a damn.

And if what you guys are saying is that it's a wasted effort, I agree with that.

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[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's just something the players wanted, they're going to sell the jerseys for the weekend, and donate the proceeds to charity. You guys are ridiculous.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's just something the players wanted, they're going to sell the jerseys for the weekend, and donate the proceeds to charity. You guys are ridiculous.

If the charity angle is the prime motivator, couldn't they just donate a [larger] portion of their regular jersey sales? That might actually be more lucrative and consistent. Seeing that you can already purchase customized jerseys and gear, how does this really change anything other than ratcheting up the marketing power/consumer awareness?

Also why are they actually doing this? Explanations already given in this thread include:

1) The players felt their individuality so stifled that they worked a provision into the CBA through the MLBPA.

2) MLB is doing this in an attempt to appeal to potential fans (who aren't really interested in the actual game of baseball) who might like the promotion and somehow become a fan because of that.

3) MLB is doing this as a simple merchandizing ploy to make a few hundred thousand dollars extra and kick some of that to charity.

I suppose they could be doing casual jersey weekend for all of the above?

My issue with this scheme, aside from not really understanding why they want to do it exactly (several different explanations are being given as mentioned above), is that I like the regular uniforms. Plain and simple. I won't exaggerate to the point where I'm suggesting all the alternates (Mother's Day, Father's Day, Jackie Robinson Day, Memorial Day, 4th of July, Military Camo Alts, etc) are "ruining the game," but the added personalization aspect strikes me as gimmicky and unnecessary. I see a lot of personalization in the normal game (batting stances, equipment, skills and tendencies, history) as it is and don't agree that the game inherently lacks personality. I guess that's part of what makes me follow the game so closely?

I do think this is a slippery slope potentially. First you remove the intentional walk, then it's a harmless weekend of nicknames, and then...?? After each minor change we have to sit through why so serious treatment from everyone who is gung-ho about all of the changes and little gimmicks. Change is inevitable, but not everyone will (or should) be expected to like it. If MLB changes too much and too quickly, it risks alienating its traditionalist base at some point.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

They could do any number of things instead of this, this is the route they're choosing to go. This is allowing the players to wear customized gear, so I'm not sure what the ability of fans to purchase customized gear has to do with it.

I re-read the article and the organization the money will go to is the Youth Development Foundation, a foundation that the MLB and MLBPA set up as a joint venture to promote amateur baseball and softball around the country, it looks like they provide grants for people who want to begin baseball programs and give scholarships to people for baseball academies. It also just says "The jersey from the weekend" so I'm not sure if that means the jerseys will go up on mlb.com or if they will take the actual game worn jerseys and auction them but I'm guessing the latter.

There's 162 games, the teams will wear these for 3, please don't act like this is blocking out the regular uniforms from being seen or something. The alternates, if an issue, are another one entirely because that still isn't player specific in the first place. If you don't agree that the game lacks personality, that's fine, but many disagree.

The "why so serious" treatment that you don't like is a response to the complaining that other people don't like. They go together like lamb and tuna fish. MLB doesn't seem that worried about alienating their traditional fanbase, and like CMH said, if they truly love baseball, they've got nowhere else to go. If you feel like MLB is playing chicken with your fanhood, you might as well turn because they aren't going to.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Oh there's little chance of them turning my fanhood because I enjoy most everything about the game itself. I'd just prefer that any changes made by Manfred et al serve a purpose/solve a legitimate problem without causing others.

Gimmicky jersey weekends are mostly harmless in and of themselves, but they don't solve any real problems nor do they pay tribute to important aspects of our culture (family, civil rights, military service). MLB already has the means to/should be/always has been doing that with youth grants without proceeds from a few hundred/thousand "Joey Bats" jerseys supplementing their coffers so I just don't buy the charity angle.

Moreover, not to re-litigate the intentional walk thing that everyone is tired of talking about, but the change didn't really solve a problem there either; there is a vanishingly small number of IBBs. Then Manfred et al changed their tune to "we know it won't make games shorter, but it's a boring baseball play" from "we want to make games go faster" when nobody really bought into the original argument.

One thing that (I guess?) gets overlooked is baseball has been built on a mountain of continuity and timelessness. Those traits are a huge draw for a lot of baseball fans who like the idea of something fairly permanent and venerable. Both of these traits are mostly mythical since we all know the game has changed in countless ways and has had clearly-defined eras. However, that sense of continuity through the generations is very important. This should always be weighed against adjustments and tinkering, especially when said adjustments and tinkering don't accomplish anything.

I'm not incredibly worried about the powers that be destroying baseball in my lifetime since it's in their best interests to maintain the status quo actually, but this is one area of life where I think a conservative approach is a good idea.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I don't care about this weekend. I couldn't care less. I think things like this are difficult to watch visually, like, on TV. Other than that who cares.

I care about the stated "goals" of "acquiring new fans" and I think the way it's being done is pathetic at best and doing a complete disservice to the sport by not actually marketing THE SPORT and what's going on IN THE SPORT right now. All these other things are patchwork gimmicks and I've seen patchwork gimmicks fail way too many ****ing times in recent years across all walks of life. Fleeting, cosmetic garbage with nothing to follow.

And more than that, I'm sick of the constant clichéd criticism that "it's not the 1950s anymore!" and "the old guard needs to die off!" and all this other revolutionary-style self-fellation crap that gets spewed.

You wanna build baseball? ****ing great. Don't act like nicknames on a jersey and colored shoes are gonna do it or that somehow people are bigoted or backwards or boring because they think it's pointless. Not going to develop fans for the next 5 decades because of crap like this or artificially shortened games or whatever. Nobody is going to fall in love with the art of pitching and want to watch for the rest of their lives because Max Scherzer wore a cool hat one time. How shallow.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I don't care about this weekend. I couldn't care less. I think things like this are difficult to watch visually, like, on TV. Other than that who cares.

I care about the stated "goals" of "acquiring new fans" and I think the way it's being done is pathetic at best and doing a complete disservice to the sport by not actually marketing THE SPORT and what's going on IN THE SPORT right now. All these other things are patchwork gimmicks and I've seen patchwork gimmicks fail way too many ****ing times in recent years across all walks of life. Fleeting, cosmetic garbage with nothing to follow.

And more than that, I'm sick of the constant clichéd criticism that "it's not the 1950s anymore!" and "the old guard needs to die off!" and all this other revolutionary-style self-fellation crap that gets spewed.

You wanna build baseball? ****ing great. Don't act like nicknames on a jersey and colored shoes are gonna do it or that somehow people are bigoted or backwards or boring because they think it's pointless. Not going to develop fans for the next 5 decades because of crap like this or artificially shortened games or whatever.

This touches on a good point that it's not really the gimmicks themselves that are offensive, but that there is an almost total lack of substantive ideas in the Commissioner's Office as to how to actually increase interest in the game. Nearly everything they've tried (since I've been alive before Manfred and even Selig) has seemed reactionary, poorly-timed, gimmicky, and/or idiotic. That said, baseball is pretty healthy right now so letting it breathe mostly makes sense. It would just be nice if the majority of ideas about increasing baseball's popularity didn't seem like they were generated by a cadre of kindergarteners with a pack of crayons on the back of a Chuck-E-Cheese napkin. These people have a great product and really powerful marketing tools to work with here.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's not an attempt to gain new fans, it's an attempt to let the players blow off some steam and have fun for a weekend and show off their personality.

Hallmark of the old guard is complaining about things that don't have **** to do with them, and conflating completely unrelated events to fit into a narrative, this one being "OMG they're trying to change baseball and I hate it." This doesn't have anything to do with intentional walks, or pace of play, but of course all of that is being talked about.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

It's not an attempt to gain new fans, it's an attempt to let the players blow off some steam and have fun for a weekend and show off their personality.

Hallmark of the old guard is complaining about things that don't have **** to do with them, and conflating completely unrelated events to fit into a narrative, this one being "OMG they're trying to change baseball and I hate it." This doesn't have anything to do with intentional walks, or pace of play, but of course all of that is being talked about.

And the hallmark of the new guard is to minimze everything and say nothing is related to larger themes (change, productive ideas vs gimmicks) ever, it's just this one little thing all in good fun, and that everyone is in get off my lawn mode and overreacting as usual.

We can go round and round on this, but I'd have to assume nobody wants to keep this debate going for much longer. I think there's a morsel of truth on both sides, but am content to leave it at that.