MLB Off-Topic

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I love baseball.

I still think the league needs to reduce the down time...that's my only gripe. Not necessarily implement a pitch clock but force the batter/pitcher to comply by either having a strike/ball called to non-compliance.

That's why I love watching the LLWS...the kids are ready to pitch and are ready to hit. It's just so enjoyable.

[CMH]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

^^^Agree with all of that. Disparaging your own product is counterproductive.

I still don't know what is it that the other leagues are doing regarding marketing of individual players that MLB isn't doing.

Can you name any non baseball related commercials Kershaw, Trout are in?

There's a QB in Green Bay who still gets "discount double check" jokes. Peyton used to be everywhere.

The NBA still has retired players in commercials. When has Nolan Ryan done a commercial outside of complaining about arm pain now that he's 60?

These guys do not get products and ads because MLB doesn't push them. No one really knows who Trout is unless they care about the Angels or truly follow the sport. There are people I've seen online that didn't know a thing about baseball or basketball but knew who Kobe Bryant was and had NO IDEA who Derek Jeter was.

That's concerning. You can't get non fans interested by telling them to root for a team. It's easier when there are dynasties like the Yankees in the mid 1900s and everyone wanted to be a Yankees fan and it spread. Or the Cowboys becoming America's Team.

Today, why would you root for the Orioles and Manny Machado if you didn't live in the Baltimore area? Who the heck is Manny Machado to a non fan?

But you find people that will follow Kobe Bryant or LeBron James on name alone.

I would love to see where MLB is doing exactly the same as the other leagues in promoting their sport. Because they aren't. They actually do the opposite every chance they can get

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[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Can you name any non baseball related commercials Kershaw, Trout are in?

There's a QB in Green Bay who still gets "discount double check" jokes. Peyton used to be everywhere.

The NBA still has retired players in commercials. When has Nolan Ryan done a commercial outside of complaining about arm pain now that he's 60?

These guys do not get products and ads because MLB doesn't push them. No one really knows who Trout is unless they care about the Angels or truly follow the sport. There are people I've seen online that didn't know a thing about baseball or basketball but knew who Kobe Bryant was and had NO IDEA who Derek Jeter was.

That's concerning. You can't get non fans interested by telling them to root for a team. It's easier when there are dynasties like the Yankees in the mid 1900s and everyone wanted to be a Yankees fan and it spread. Or the Cowboys becoming America's Team.

Today, why would you root for the Orioles and Manny Machado if you didn't live in the Baltimore area? Who the heck is Manny Machado to a non fan?

But you find people that will follow Kobe Bryant or LeBron James on name alone.

I would love to see where MLB is doing exactly the same as the other leagues in promoting their sport. Because they aren't. They actually do the opposite every chance they can get

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Well, Mike Trout was in a pretty hardcore SUBWAY advertising campaign, but I think there is a good deal of truth to this. I'm not sure how effective marketing individuals would be in creating new MLB fans as in new American dollar-paying customers (rather than just people who have casually heard of a certain player before).

It strikes many of us "in the know" that people not even knowing who Mike Trout is as being outrageous. How is that possible? But if you asked 100 randoms on the street about him, who would recognize him? 20 people? 30 people? Who would recognize LeBron James or Aaron Rodgers or even a guy like Dwight Howard? Probably significantly more I'm guessing.

So, why is this the case? Well, for one, the Angels have been terribly mismanaged resulting in Mike Trout never even sniffing the World Series and the focusing power/endorsement deals than a deep championship run can have. Unlike the NBA where having the best player in the league basically gives you a 50% chance of being in the Finals, success in baseball is way more dependent on the entire team than any other major sport. Haven't the Angels been in the playoffs only 1 or 2 times since Trout has been active and performing like Mickey Mantle? And didn't they get taken apart easily by that nice Kansas City Royals team one year? He can't even get attention in his own market because of the shadow cast by the Dodgers.

What could be done about it? Well why doesn't Mike Trout participate in the HR Derby? Why doesn't MLB make "offers these guys can't refuse" to get them into these events? I mean Aaron Judge reportedly isn't sure he wants to be in the HR Derby and it would be a weird missed opportunity to not at least try to convince him otherwise. Judge is arguably the biggest thing in baseball right now (figuratively) and there's no argument that he is (literally). When Stanton did it and hit those ridiculous moonshots (at Petco?) it was seriously an event to behold that even non-fans could gawk at.

MLB working harder to get these premium talents to participate in profile-raising events would be good. More advertising campaigns like the Bryzzo one couldn't hurt either. However, there's nothing they can really do about the Angels' regime and their chronic mismanagement. lol

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Can you name any non baseball related commercials Kershaw, Trout are in?

There's a QB in Green Bay who still gets "discount double check" jokes. Peyton used to be everywhere.

The NBA still has retired players in commercials. When has Nolan Ryan done a commercial outside of complaining about arm pain now that he's 60?

These guys do not get products and ads because MLB doesn't push them. No one really knows who Trout is unless they care about the Angels or truly follow the sport. There are people I've seen online that didn't know a thing about baseball or basketball but knew who Kobe Bryant was and had NO IDEA who Derek Jeter was.

That's concerning. You can't get non fans interested by telling them to root for a team. It's easier when there are dynasties like the Yankees in the mid 1900s and everyone wanted to be a Yankees fan and it spread. Or the Cowboys becoming America's Team.

Today, why would you root for the Orioles and Manny Machado if you didn't live in the Baltimore area? Who the heck is Manny Machado to a non fan?

But you find people that will follow Kobe Bryant or LeBron James on name alone.

I would love to see where MLB is doing exactly the same as the other leagues in promoting their sport. Because they aren't. They actually do the opposite every chance they can get

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Ok, do you have any specific information to that effect? Because I doubt MLB doesn't "pushes" for their own players to get products and ads. I mean it doesn't make sense, why wouldn't they?

And isn't this also on MLB's official partners to come up with creative advertisement campaigns? I mean, companies pay millions to ad agencies to come up with advertisement campaigns but MLB has to do that legwork for them too?

I feel there is some chicken and the egg effect going on here. Why would, a State Farm-like company initiate an ad campaign with Mike Trout when he isn't that famous or recognizable yet how would Trout become that famous or recognizable without the ad campaign in the first place?

In the NFL players like Aaron Rodgers are intrinsically famous by the mere fact that they are great players that play in by far the most popular sport in the United States. So they have a built in advantage.

But what about the NBA? LeBron and his Kia commercials for example? I think Kia is, one of, if not their main partner during the All-Star Break. I can't think of a single MLB All-Star game main sponsor except for Century 21 and I just took a look at the MLB official sponsor's page and they aren't a sponsor anymore. Frankly, no official MLB sponsor comes to mind except for T-Mobile. LeBron and the top players just seem to have a higher Q-rating than MLB players. Probably do to the inherent fact of 1/5 players, which makes their individual contribution more impactful on the court and they get recognize as such in TV (SportsCenter etc.).

I just don't know, I would like to think that better, much handsomely paid minds in the Commissioner's office have thought about this and they are trying their best. Maybe they should clean house and fire them all. Or maybe it is simply the fact that baseball has become of a regional sport and there's no advertisement campaign that can overcome that. Maybe there's a cap for MLB players that can't be overcome.

Nah, I don't want to think that way. We are one creative ad campaign away from turning this around *crosses fingers*

Well, I have rambled for too long.

[Master Live 013]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I still think social media is a key to growth of the popularity of the game.

Plus embrace the natural state of the game. The game is too long? Well, thinking as a time to relax. Plus baseball is really a numbers game and with the rise of analytics (not just in sports, but politics, cost-benefit analysis etc.) maybe it can be at the forefront of the new zeitgeist:

"Baseball: the thinking man's game". (TM)

You know, going counter-culture. "Smart kids like baseball"

[CMH]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

All valid points. I didn't want to quote the walls but I read them.

I do think MLB needs to step up their game in house first.

Their partners, I don't know the deal. I think of stuff like Blake Griffin and his weird Kia commercials and I'm wondering why Stanton couldn't do that sort of thing. Are baseball players too serious? Can't be true all the way around, and for every star.

As for Trout, he is just one example. Why didn't Lincecum or Zito get big in marketing? Both could easily fit a certain type of character in a commercial?

Where is the fun?

And the best thing is you don't have to watch this stuff. It's just a commercial. So if you hate the idea of fun commercials, ignore them.

But we need more individual pushes. At least experiment with something.

Advertisers need someone who changes how baseball is marketed. And it needs to be something different than the others.

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[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think we are confusing what advertisers want versus what the leagues want.

The respective leagues don't reach out to advertisers and say, "Go after this guy."

They pick a marketable guy and go with it, Why there aren't more MLB players, I don't know, but it isn't the fault of the MLB.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Another thing about this advertising issue is that when players get endorsements and sponsorships to push product, they aren't really selling you on the merits of the sport they play anyway. The intent is more to use the fact that you already know who they are to help a company sell stuff and associate themselves/their products with that fame. Giving Clayton Kershaw a bunch of air time for commercials isn't really going to make people flock to baseball just because he's on TV. If people don't know who he is already, he might as well be some generic pitchman on an infomercial at 3 AM.

If anyone would be running commercials to sell you on the talent of the player, that would be MLB itself.

[TheMatrix31]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Commercials don't lead people to the game.

The game leads players to commercials.

Promote the sport and the advertising will come.

Make the game cool and it'll flow like lava.

[CMH]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think we are confusing what advertisers want versus what the leagues want.

The respective leagues don't reach out to advertisers and say, "Go after this guy."

They pick a marketable guy and go with it, Why there aren't more MLB players, I don't know, but it isn't the fault of the MLB.

I'm blaming MLB for not giving advertisers reasons to go after the stars.

I never said MLB asks advertisers to do that. I don't know why that ever came up.

My point is if you trash your own product and don't promote your players, advertisers don't see the value in signing guys to deals.

The NBA is amazing at making sure you know about their stars. MLB doesn't give a crap if anyone cares about Kershaw or Trout or Machado or Harper.

And when they do come up, the discussion is about injuries or flash, and every opportunity to discredit their value.

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[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I feel like Silver is always talking about how bad the issues in the 4th quarter are and how he hates tanking and fouling. The NBA has a much easier time with marketing because it's easier to isolate a star in basketball.

I think there's somewhat of a silhouette issue with baseball. When we see the Griffey logo, we know who it is. When I see the A-Rod logo, I can recognize his swing. But those differences are things you would never pick up on if you weren't watching. You could make everything pixelated and tell LeBron on a breakaway dunk from the way he goes up for his side tomahawk. You can tell Steph from his handles and his 3, or his shimmy. In baseball, once you drop the bat everyone looks exactly the same. In the field most people look exactly the same. If I'm a company, how do I market a guy that has very little to differentiate him from anyone else other than his greatness? And if greatness is the ad campaign, how do we market everyone else? There's not that many opportunities to show personality, and the few that exist people want to suppress. Bryce is easy, give him a head and shoulders ad, make him do the hair flip. He stands out visually.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I feel like Silver is always talking about how bad the issues in the 4th quarter are and how he hates tanking and fouling. The NBA has a much easier time with marketing because it's easier to isolate a star in basketball.

I think there's somewhat of a silhouette issue with baseball. When we see the Griffey logo, we know who it is. When I see the A-Rod logo, I can recognize his swing. But those differences are things you would never pick up on if you weren't watching. You could make everything pixelated and tell LeBron on a breakaway dunk from the way he goes up for his side tomahawk. You can tell Steph from his handles and his 3, or his shimmy. In baseball, once you drop the bat everyone looks exactly the same. In the field most people look exactly the same. If I'm a company, how do I market a guy that has very little to differentiate him from anyone else other than his greatness? And if greatness is the ad campaign, how do we market everyone else? There's not that many opportunities to show personality, and the few that exist people want to suppress. Bryce is easy, give him a head and shoulders ad, make him do the hair flip. He stands out visually.

I'm not sure this argument holds a ton of water for the simple fact that many football players are easily recognizable/marketable even though they spend the majority of their TV time with equipment/helmets covering up their faces/likenesses. If it's really about guys not looking much different from each other on TV during the games, then why doesn't it seem to matter for football players? The key is people are fervently watching football already, they learn who these players are from watching those games, and then advertisers saturate their faces all over media with various advertising campaigns.

There is a chicken-and-egg thing going on here with whether players gain their initial, breakthrough fame from their in-game feats or whether media are simply supposed to make these players famous with the audience subsequently watching more baseball because they've seen a player in a commercial.

I think there are all kinds of reasons why players are marketed differently by different leagues, but I think a stronger argument comparing MLB with NBA would be that on NBA teams there are fewer names/faces to learn per team, with maybe 7 or 8 guys getting minutes on each team--of those 7 or 8 only 3 or 4 get much usage. In baseball the pitching staff alone is 12 players and all of the starting position players are roughly equally important. As for the NFL, there are 53 players per team but the overwhelming focus is so heavily on the quarterbacks that most fans will recognize QBs, even if they don't know anyone else on the team, and the QBs then go on to a grip ton of endorsements.

A guy who stands out visually makes it a bit easier to differentiate, but to a random non-fan watching a game in any sport, they will see a bunch of dudes running around that mostly look alike and are mostly wearing the same uniform.

[dubcity]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think part of the issue with baseball not having many successfully marketed stars is the simple fact the baseball isn't the main sport it was 20+ years ago. Back when Ken Griffey Jr was up there with MJ in terms of branding and endorsements, baseball was on the NFL's level in terms of popularity. NBA is just unique because players have the cameras on them so much.

The idea that MLB is at fault for not trying to push their stars enough doesn't ring true to me. They aren't that naive. Star power equals ratings. If they could turn Mike Trout into a charismatic media star they would. Part of that blame has to fall on the players.

If a guy wants to go out there, show personality, and seek out media/commercial exposure, he can do that. Of course, when guys show some attitude and swag, there's always that old guard of fans who disapprove. A culture of "keep your head down, play the game the right way" works against guys breaking out. Especially when a star player in baseball doesn't get nearly as much TV time an NFL QB, or any starting NBA player.

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Honestly, all of the angst about baseball is white noise to me at this point. I do a lot of baseball reading and one of the things I enjoy reading is Baseball Digests. I have read issues going all the way back to the 1940's to the present and if there is a constant, it's the "worrying" about baseball. In the 1940's they worried about football over taking it, in the 1960's they were worried about the pitching dominating and the game becoming too boring, in the 1970's they worried about competitive balance, in the 1980's/1990's a lot of the same stuff being discussed today was being discussed then.

Complaining/worrying about the national pastime is as much a pastime as the game itself.

[CMH]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Honestly, all of the angst about baseball is white noise to me at this point. I do a lot of baseball reading and one of the things I enjoy reading is Baseball Digests. I have read issues going all the way back to the 1940's to the present and if there is a constant, it's the "worrying" about baseball. In the 1940's they worried about football over taking it, in the 1960's they were worried about the pitching dominating and the game becoming too boring, in the 1970's they worried about competitive balance, in the 1980's/1990's a lot of the same stuff being discussed today was being discussed then.

Complaining/worrying about the national pastime is as much a pastime as the game itself.

Sometimes I wonder how we even got here.

Like, how did they get guys to start wearing helmets or play in 330 foot fields instead of 500?

Crazy game. I love it so much.

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