MLB Off-Topic

[kehlis]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

You get so defensive sometimes. Holy crap.

[Caulfield]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Codebreaker?


See, I really don't think that you can. Tell me exactly how this can be avoided. Teams can use Excel. Codebreaker to me is nothing more than a logging and processing tool.


Just like computers can tell us about batting averages and hitter tendencies, that's what this thing is doing. There are some teams that are using algorithms to determine when their own player should have a day off, for crying out loud.


The unfairness would be if they are zoomed in on a catcher or coach, and feeding this information to the team in live scenarios. That is the problem at hand. Codebreaker, on the other hand, is not.


I need somebody to be specific as to why they believe that this is an unfair advantage of any kind. Is it because it is proprietary? That somebody from the inside developed it and it's not accessible to everybody else? I don't think that's enough. He developed an artificial intelligence, good for him. Otherwise, tell me how this is any different than a computer telling them that a batter swings at 32% of breaking balls below the strike zone in two-strike counts, because teams have that kind of information known to them.


And again, this can't exactly be stopped. The only way it can be is to tell teams they can't use computers and have to resort to primitive "pencil and paper" tactics only. What can be stopped are extra cameras and clubhouse monitors integrated for silly things like replay, as well as communication inside the dugout...

I think this is the line of reason MLB had when not handing out punishment to this intern. and why it's not an important part of the story, I think at this point it's all dog-piling on Houston. the only thing semi-quasi interesting about the latest ''breaking news'' is the name ''dark arts''. as for Luhnow lying about just how much he knew and when did he know it, well, he may have fooled some people into believing that, but he didn't fool MLB. I'd be stunned if he ever works in major league baseball again.

[countryboy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Skip the posts, then. This is new information and worth discussing. No one is bumping this out of thin air.

And to be crystal clear, I'm ready for the baseball season too. But what do I do, post in this thread saying that I'm ready for the baseball season? Pitchers and catchers haven't even reported yet.

Maybe it should have had its own thread the entire time, in which case you and others could unsubscribe from it.

I shared my opinion on the topic and then responded to Speedy when he responded to me.

Next time keep your mouth shut and skip my posts



Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Codebreaker specifically refers to their system of monitoring a live game and relaying current information to the field.

Codebreaker is not some cute name for the use of analytics or Excel or scouting or anything.

Codebreaker is their way of gaining an improper advantage in a manner that is strictly against the rules in black and white, and it's bull****.

I don't care if anyone is "ok" with it.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Codebreaker specifically refers to their system of monitoring a live game and relaying current information to the field.

Codebreaker is not some cute name for the of analytics or Excel or scouting or anything.

Codebreaker is their way of gaining an improper advantage in a manner that is strictly against the rules in black and white, and it's bull****.

I don't care if anyone is "ok" with it.

Got it. I guess that's just a matter of semantics, then. What they're doing is wrong, but the algorithm ain't. As long as we're on the same page there.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

When the owner walks by the video room, gets giddy and asks "are we codebreaking today?" then it's a little more than analytics.

[Speedy]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Never said it wasn’t cheating nor that it didn’t need to be addressed.

Just that I’m over listening to talking heads and fans discuss the issue. Let baseball figure it out and let’s move on and focus on the upcoming season


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Agreed, on that point. Baseball has had a rough off-season for sure.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Sportsforever]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

When the owner walks by the video room, gets giddy and asks "are we codebreaking today?" then it's a little more than analytics.

I think you meant GM...not owner.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I think you meant GM...not owner.

Correct, I keep mistaking Luhnow as the owner.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

When the owner walks by the video room, gets giddy and asks "are we codebreaking today?" then it's a little more than analytics.

By the way, not trying to be confrontational, just inquisitive.

I've definitely made myself clear they have misused the tool they were handed. We are still in agreement on that.

I'm just saying that if two weeks from now, some guy posts a video on YouTube saying: "Okay, I've made my own algorithm on Excel, and paired with clips from MLB.TV I'll show you how I sequence the signs and it spits out suggested signs for me," then the only wrongdoing in this case would be an ethics debate, but it shouldn't be from the same people who gain any other player analytics.

I don't see why every team wouldn't make their own in the same way and use it for scouting like the aforementioned bit. We just have to get rid of the other electronic uses. Ditching the replay review system would be a good start.

At any rate, as Caulfield said, maybe that's why Vigoa wasn't punished at all.

Vigoa needs to be fired because he knew the algorithm would be used in game in real time.

If he was the mastermind, the MLB should've definitely taken action. If he knew it would be used for that without being strong-armed, same ish. Though from an advantageous perspective, if they won't do anything then I wouldn't do anything as the Astros unless his value is lessened by not being the same contributor he used to be able to be.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

By the way, not trying to be confrontational, just inquisitive.

I've definitely made myself clear they have misused the tool they were handed. We are still in agreement on that.

I'm just saying that if two weeks from now, some guy posts a video on YouTube saying: "Okay, I've made my own algorithm on Excel, and paired with clips from MLB.TV I'll show you how I sequence the signs and it spits out suggested signs for me," then the only wrongdoing in this case would be an ethics debate, but it shouldn't be from the same people who gain any other player analytics.

I don't see why every team wouldn't make their own in the same way and use it for scouting like the aforementioned bit. We just have to get rid of the other electronic uses. Ditching the replay review system would be a good start.

At any rate, as Caulfield said, maybe that's why Vigoa wasn't punished at all.




If he was the mastermind, the MLB should've definitely taken action. If he knew it would be used for that without being strong-armed, same ish. Though from an advantageous perspective, if they won't do anything then I wouldn't do anything as the Astros unless his value is lessened by not being the same contributor he used to be able to be.

BECAUSE SOME GUY ON YOUTUBE WITH AN EXCEL SHEET AND MLB.TV CLIPS ISN'T A BASEBALL PLAYER BEING GIVEN ILLEGAL SIGNALS BASED ON A LIVE FEED OF THE GAME THAT HE IS CURRENTLY PLAYING IN.

I don't know where the confusion is. Nobody is saying they can't use previous games or excel spreadsheets or algorithms. The issue is USING A LIVE FEED OF THE GAME YOU ARE PLAYING (LETTER FOR LETTER AGAINST THE RULES) AND BANGING ON A TRASHCAN TO TELL THE BATTER WHAT PITCH IS COMING.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

BECAUSE SOME GUY ON YOUTUBE WITH AN EXCEL SHEET AND MLB.TV CLIPS ISN'T A BASEBALL PLAYER BEING GIVEN ILLEGAL SIGNALS BASED ON A LIVE FEED OF THE GAME THAT HE IS CURRENTLY PLAYING IN.

I don't know where the confusion is. Nobody is saying they can't use previous games or excel spreadsheets or algorithms. The issue is USING A LIVE FEED OF THE GAME YOU ARE PLAYING (LETTER FOR LETTER AGAINST THE RULES) AND BANGING ON A TRASHCAN TO TELL THE BATTER WHAT PITCH IS COMING.

I hear you loud and clear. No one has disagreed with this. Anyone who has read my posts know that I think this is tenfold worse than steroid use. I'm talking about the new information only.

Someone here talked about permanently banning the guy who came up with the algorithm. That's where I'm in disagreement and express confusion.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

I hear you loud and clear. No one has disagreed with this. Anyone who has read my posts know that I think this is tenfold worse than steroid use. I'm talking about the new information only.

Someone here talked about permanently banning the guy who came up with the algorithm. That's where I'm in disagreement and express confusion.

Why not? He's responsible. If not for him creating the initial system, Codebreaker wouldn't have been there and we wouldn't have had to suffer through the past month.

His name was provided, and it was discovered he now has a much higher position in Houston's front office. They want to send a message? Permanently ban someone.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Permanently banning a random dude no one had heard of before this would not send any kind of message.

[Blzer]

Re: MLB Off-Topic

Why not? He's responsible. If not for him creating the initial system, Codebreaker wouldn't have been there and we wouldn't have had to suffer through the past month.

His name was provided, and it was discovered he now has a much higher position in Houston's front office. They want to send a message? Permanently ban someone.

Understood. If he is the mastermind behind the entire scheme, then I agree the MLB should do something. Permanent ban is high up there, but that would certainly be a message. I still say a yearlong suspension. If he is a guy who just coded something and said: "Hey guys, check this out!" then someone else devised how they can communicate it to players in-game, I don't see that as punitive myself. That's all

Even still, if other organizations don't have an algorithm in place and haven't thought of doing that for scouting purposes, you can bet they're going to try and do it now. And I don't know why they wouldn't, especially if they're teams that bank heavily on sabermetrics.