6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

[Speedy]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

Several folks in Braves country want Fredi gone

[Chip Douglass]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

Yea the team sucks. They had to fire the pitching just for the pitchers to start to get aggressive. Farrell should also be fired. One name I would love to see if he does get canned is Ozzie Guillen. This team needs a manager that will light a fire under the players asses. And Guillen would be that. 2013 was an anomaly and the FO needs to realize that. Also he sucks as a coach in 5 or 6 seasons he only has 1 winning season 2013. Also I hate that top guys keeping telling him he is safe. When he shouldn't be, this year is right on track to be just like the Bobby Valentine year.

It's not John Farrell's fault that Hanley Ramirez has no idea how to play LF or that the pitching staff has sort of been a disaster.

[areobee401]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

It's not John Farrell's fault that Hanley Ramirez has no idea how to play LF or that the pitching staff has sort of been a disaster.

It is his fault that no player is ever held accountable for anything. Also his fault that he can't manage in-game. Far too many poor decisions. And as a former pitching coach he holds part of the blame for the pitching staff.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

Let's not be totally revisionist here. I distinctly remember before the season a lot of experts saying the AL East is completely up for grabs except for Tampa Bay. (oops!) Most of these experts did what the Red Sox management did by rationalizing the state of the starting rotation. They were all like "well they don't have a true #1 but the offense is going to carry this team". I don't think anyone in their right mind envisioned the rotation being THIS bad.

There were high expectations this year what with the Red Sox loading up on offense and people were expecting them to at least contend for a playoff spot. As for John Farrell I think he's one of the managers that relies heavily upon the quality of the roster. Yes, you can say that about every manager but some managers have a way of elevating talent and trying to maximize them to the best of their abilities. Farrell IMO from watching him first in Toronto and in Boston is a guy is a fairly capable in-game manager but in terms of people skills and getting the non-stars to play above their head he just can't cut it.

One of the reasons why there was so much turmoil when Farrell left Toronto was because he came across as extremely disingenuous. He kept things close to his vest, always tried to play the PR game by not saying anything remotely close to the truth and strung the Jays organization on a string when it came to the Red Sox job. He kept saying "oh i'm not going to Boston" but everyone knew that was his dream job and if Bobby Valentine hadn't made such a mess he would've stayed in Toronto BUT as soon as the job opened up he did everything he could to go back to Fenway in a way that left many people disillusioned. It's probably one reason why Gibbons got the Jays gig again as I don't think AA wants another repeat of that whole saga.

If Farrell is as much of a faker in public imagine just how bad he can be with his charges. He's already done some things that have pissed off some of the players such as benching Ortiz against lefties and (this one is shared with the management) putting Hanley Ramirez in LF when he's far better suited as an INF.

So yeah, there's a lot wrong in Beantown and some of the problems lay at the feet at management but I think a lot of blame has to fall on Farrell for not managing the situation better. I don't know if he still does the whole "nice guy PR but being secretive" thing with the media down there but if he does than that's not going to fly when everyone had high expectations. As a prominent radio host here in Toronto called him Farrell is a himbo. He may look great but when you dig deep, he's vacuous and is way over his head.

This is so true. The guy was a pitching coach before becoming the manager in Toronto. I thought had a chance to make the playoffs this season because the offense was supposed one of the best in the league with Ortiz, Hanley, and Sandoval in the middle of the lineup. And the thoughts on our pitching staff were it would be a middle of the pack rotation. Ranked somewhere in 15-20 in the league. Also compare this season to the Bobby Valentine year. They are similar in terms of the way that the teams is playing right now. But in 2012 the players didn't want to play for Valentine. So he should be at least held accountable for the way the team is playing like SPTO said. And I haven't heard any players saying that are mad about benching Ortiz against lefties. But I'm hoping they are getting pissed because that's what this team needs. Is guys getting scared that they might lose their starting spot because they are not performing well.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

It's not John Farrell's fault that Hanley Ramirez has no idea how to play LF or that the pitching staff has sort of been a disaster.

You are completely right about Hanley he should be capable of playing LF especially in Fenway. And that's not Farrell's fault. But as aerobee said he is a former pitching coach so some of the blame should fall on him. He probably doesn't have as much input with pitchers as when he was a pitching coach. But he still should work more with the pitchers where he knows that they are living up to expectations.

[Chip Douglass]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

On the topic of firing managers, lets see John Gibbons fired too!

It's a joke that a guy who never made playoffs,and has only had a single 85+ win season,is 2nd all time on Jays managers win list. Cito obviously at #1 and deserving so,but the fact that Gibbons has been here 8 seasons through 2 diff stints,is stupid.

I think it's kind of remarkable that the Jays could add two MVP-like performers on their team and still hang around .500.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

I think it's kind of remarkable that the Jays could add two MVP-like performers on their team and still hang around .500.

Yea I honestly thought the division was going to be Toronto Red Sox Yankees up top in that order. Because of the addition of Donaldson. That team had a good rotation and a great offense with Bautista EE and Donaldson. But the bullpen was suspect. But the rotation and offense should have been able to carry them. And I honestly thought the Yankees would still have been good but not to the extent of the Sox and Jays because they lost Jeter and his leadership. And also because A-Rod was coming back this season and I figured his teammates would have made him into an outcast in that dugout or the thing between him and the team over those incentives in his contract would have been huge and caused a rift.

[SPTO]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

Yea I honestly thought the division was going to be Toronto Red Sox Yankees up top in that order. Because of the addition of Donaldson. That team had a good rotation and a great offense with Bautista EE and Donaldson. But the bullpen was suspect. But the rotation and offense should have been able to carry them. .

The Jays rotation has been on fire since the calendar flipped to June. This info is a couple days old but I don't see it changing that much but the rotation ERA since June 1st has been in the 1s while the bullpen, still being a bit shaky has performed much better. They really need a bonafide closer (Papelbon) and another righty to compliment Osuna but otherwise the Jays are performing a lot more like the team a lot of people were expecting to see.

One thing that's different about this team is that while there have been injuries guys have been stepping up rather than the entire team going down in flames. The injuries have actually kind of been a blessing in disguise as the bench/role guys are getting more playing time and contributing. In the end the entire team looks to have more depth than it has in YEARS.

I think this upcoming road trip starting in Boston will tell a lot about this Jays team going forward.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

I didn't watch the game last night so I haven't seen the confrontation. But also listening to Boston talk radio right now, for aerobee (Felger and Mazz), their update guy just brought up a great point. The 2 were arguing right in front of a camera and NOBODY came over to tell the 2 to break it up and them to shut the **** up. To me that shows that Farrell has definitely the lost clubhouse. There are guys on the team that would usually do something about it. Ortiz and Pedroia appear to be those guys. I am pretty sure in the past they have broken up that stuff in the past.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

The Jays rotation has been on fire since the calendar flipped to June. This info is a couple days old but I don't see it changing that much but the rotation ERA since June 1st has been in the 1s while the bullpen, still being a bit shaky has performed much better. They really need a bonafide closer (Papelbon) and another righty to compliment Osuna but otherwise the Jays are performing a lot more like the team a lot of people were expecting to see.

One thing that's different about this team is that while there have been injuries guys have been stepping up rather than the entire team going down in flames. The injuries have actually kind of been a blessing in disguise as the bench/role guys are getting more playing time and contributing. In the end the entire team looks to have more depth than it has in YEARS.

I think this upcoming road trip starting in Boston will tell a lot about this Jays team going forward.

Yea I have pretty much just given up on following baseball with the Sox being in the drain except for when Eddy Rodriguez is on the hill. I think he is supposed to be throwing on Sunday against the Jays. And if he is I might actually consider heading in just to see him pitch because the tickets are cheap. I found a set of tickets in the outfield bleachers for under $10 apiece. So I had no idea that the Jays rotation had been good in June.

[Majingir]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

I think it's kind of remarkable that the Jays could add two MVP-like performers on their team and still hang around .500.

Blame the pitching. Jays lost 5 games when scoring 5+ runs. Should be hovering around .600 win% right now.

To think,if it wasn't for this offense,Jays would be last in the AL right now(they've gone 10-17 in games where pitchers allowed 5+ runs)

[Sportsforever]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

Yea I have pretty much just given up on following baseball with the Sox being in the drain except for when Eddy Rodriguez is on the hill. I think he is supposed to be throwing on Sunday against the Jays. And if he is I might actually consider heading in just to see him pitch because the tickets are cheap. I found a set of tickets in the outfield bleachers for under $10 apiece. So I had no idea that the Jays rotation had been good in June.

So I guess not redsox4evur?

[redsox4evur]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

So I guess not redsox4evur?

No still a fan just not following the team as much as I used to. But if they do bring in Guillen I am hopping right back into just to see how that would work out. I won't watch games I still get the updates from the ESPN app for every game. Get whenever someone scores and the game is over.

[bcruise]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

Jay Bruce makes a hell of a diving catch to save the game for the Reds. Extra innings.

[bcruise]

Re: 6/1 - 6/14 Game Discussion Thread

2-1 Suicide squeeze attempt by the Reds to push across the go ahead run fails on a pitch outside the zone (bunted foul)...and then Suarez hits a grounder to short - or at least, it would have been if the infield wasn't in. 5-4 Reds.