2016 H.O.F Discussion

[Knight165]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Player B:

.298/.444 (6th all time)/.607 (5th all time) /1.051 OPS (4th all time)
2715 games played at LF (don't know where to find ranking?)
762 HRs
1996 RBI
2227 Runs
514 SB (had a 40-40 season in 1996); (only member of the 500 HR/500 SB club)
173 wRC+
.439 wOBA
164.4 fWAR / 162.4 bWAR / 117.5 JAWS (average LF HoF'er 53.3 JAWS)
career +0.9 UZR/150 at LF (okay, not great)
1990, '92, '93, 2001, '02, '03, '04 NL MVP
1990, '91, '92, '93, '94, '96, '97, '98, '99 NL GG
9 top 3 finishes in MVP

Pick any two players in the Hall of Fame. Player B has more MVP awards than both of them combined.

If Player B had retired after his age-27 season, he would have done so with 50.1 career bWAR, more than 42 Hall of Fame position players.

Player B opened the 2004 season with a stretch in which he reached base 45 times in 64 plate appearances, with nine home runs and four strikeouts.

Player B took the extra base—advancing more than one base on a single, or more than two on a double—43 percent of the time, more often than Ichiro Suzuki.

Player B made 85 fewer outs than Ken Griffey Jr. did in 1,302 more plate appearances.

No reason he should've had to wait half a decade for voters to realize this.

It didn't.
They knew right away what to do with that player.

But let's get off it...because this thread is about to go off the rails.

M.K.
Knight165

[Speedy]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Official tally:

Rk	Name			YoB	Votes	%vote
1	Ken Griffey		1st	437	99.30%
2	Mike Piazza		4th	365	83.00%
3	Jeff Bagwell		6th	315	71.60%
4	Tim Raines		9th	307	69.80%
5	Trevor Hoffman		1st	296	67.30%
6	Curt Schilling		4th	230	52.30%
7	Roger Clemens		4th	199	45.20%
8	Barry Bonds		4th	195	44.30%
9	Edgar Martinez		7th	191	43.40%
10	Mike Mussina		3rd	189	43.00%
11	X-Alan Trammell		15th	180	40.90%
12	Lee Smith		14th	150	34.10%
13	Fred McGriff		7th	92	20.90%
14	Jeff Kent		3rd	73	16.60%
15	Larry Walker		6th	68	15.50%
16	Mark McGwire		10th	54	12.30%
17	Gary Sheffield		2nd	51	11.60%
18	Billy Wagner		1st	46	10.50%
19	Sammy Sosa		4th	31	7.00%
20	X-Jim Edmonds		1st	11	2.50%
21	X-Nomar Garciaparra	2nd	8	1.80%
22	X-Mike Sweeney		1st	3	0.70%
23	X-David Eckstein	1st	2	0.50%
24	X-Jason Kendall		1st	2	0.50%
25	X-Garret Anderson	1st	1	0.20%
26	X-Luis Castillo		1st	0	0.00%
27	X-Mike Lowell		1st	0	0.00%
28	X-Troy Glaus		1st	0	0.00%
29	X-Randy Winn		1st	0	0.00%
30	X-Mark Grudzielanek	1st	0	0.00%
31	X-Brad Ausmus		1st	0	0.00%
32	X-Mike Hampton		1st	0	0.00%

[Speedy]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

My thoughts:

Yay for Junior! I'm kinda disappointed he got the highest mark over Maddog but The Kid earned it. What a joy to watch him when I grew up...he made the backwards hat thing cool. For that matter, he was the reason people starting watching the HR derby. Anybody remember the '99 ASG and the '99 HR derby? My, what a show between he and McGwire. My very first memory of him was watching Little Big League and him ruin the Twins playoff hopes.

Edgar Martinez is being cast down because was a DH yet Ortiz is thought of as a HOF. You may scorn me but I'd rather have Edgar than Ortiz...the guy has a career .933 OPS!

I'm surprised Wagner is that low; I figured he'd be at least 50%

Hopefully, Raines gets his due next year

Garrett Anderson as a HOF? David Eckstein?? Do these voters actually watch baseball?

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

It didn't.
They knew right away what to do with that player.

But let's get off it...because this thread is about to go off the rails.

M.K.
Knight165

I disagree with you Knight. He a pretty good jump this year as did his compatriot. So that says to me they didn't know what to do with them. And also how will this derail the thread? It's all HOF discussion.

[Knight165]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

I disagree with you Knight. He a pretty good jump this year as did his compatriot. So that says to me they didn't know what to do with them. And also how will this derail the thread? It's all HOF discussion.

I just mean in terms of WHY he's being excluded.
It'll turn into a "this guy did coke"....."this guy did speed....what a joke" thread.

Hey....I read that Junior is the first....1st pick to make it to the H.O.F.!
Is that right?
With Piazza being in the 62nd round...I that's gotta be the biggest gap of two players elected same year....

M.K.
Knight165

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

I just mean in terms of WHY he's being excluded.
It'll turn into a "this guy did coke"....."this guy did speed....what a joke" thread.

Hey....I read that Junior is the first....1st pick to make it to the H.O.F.!
Is that right?
With Piazza being in the 62nd round...I that's gotta be the biggest gap of two players elected same year....

M.K.
Knight165

Yea that's true but it's already happened with the unanimous talk. And I'm guilty of it. And yea it is the biggest gap over actually. Griffey earliest draft pick in HOF history and Piazza the latest by something like 40 rounds. I think the latest guy before Piazza was like round 22.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Raise your hand if in 2000 you had Nomar Garciappara falling off the ballot in his second year...

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Don't really like Edmonds falling out after 1 time. But we can blame the backlog for that...I don't know if Edmonds deserves to be in, but he deserves to have some more cracks at it.

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

And Sheffield is way too low.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Raise your hand if in 2000 you had Nomar Garciappara falling off the ballot in his second year...

Just 3-4 years later and I would agree with this. He fell off right around 03-04. But especially 04.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Just 3-4 years later and I would agree with this. He fell off right around 03-04. But especially 04.

My point is in 2000 the holy trinity (plus one) of Nomar, Jeter, Rodriguez, and later Tejada were all talked about as future HOF'rs. Heck, if you look at the way Nomar started it's hard to argue, but man he fizzled fast. I've always wondered if it was injuries or if he was a steroid guy who fell off fast once they started testing. I know a lot of people point to the wrist injury in 2001, but the truth is he came back and still hit okay in 2002/2003.

Nomar put up approximately 26 WAR by age 26...just 18 WAR over the next 10 seasons. Of all the young SS's, he was my favorite.

[dubcity]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Official tally:

RkNameYoBVotes%vote
 
 
1Ken Griffey1st43799.30%
 
 
2Mike Piazza4th36583.00%
 
 
3Jeff Bagwell6th31571.60%
 
 
4Tim Raines9th30769.80%
 
 
5Trevor Hoffman1st29667.30%
 
 
6Curt Schilling4th23052.30%
 
 
7Roger Clemens4th19945.20%
 
 
8Barry Bonds4th19544.30%
 
 
9Edgar Martinez7th19143.40%
 
 
10Mike Mussina3rd18943.00%
 
 
11X-Alan Trammell15th18040.90%
 
 
12Lee Smith14th15034.10%
 
 
13Fred McGriff7th9220.90%
 
 
14Jeff Kent3rd7316.60%
 
 
15Larry Walker6th6815.50%
 
 
16Mark McGwire10th5412.30%
 
 
17Gary Sheffield2nd5111.60%
 
 
18Billy Wagner1st4610.50%
 
 
19Sammy Sosa4th317.00%
 
 
20X-Jim Edmonds1st112.50%
 
 
21X-Nomar Garciaparra2nd81.80%
 
 
22X-Mike Sweeney1st30.70%
 
 
23X-David Eckstein1st20.50%
 
 
24X-Jason Kendall1st20.50%
 
 
25X-Garret Anderson1st10.20%
 
 
26X-Luis Castillo1st00.00%
 
 
27X-Mike Lowell1st00.00%
 
 
28X-Troy Glaus1st00.00%
 
 
29X-Randy Winn1st00.00%
 
 
30X-Mark Grudzielanek1st00.00%
 
 
31X-Brad Ausmus1st00.00%
 
 
32X-Mike Hampton1st00.00%

Curt Schilling seems high. Larry Walker getting the Coors Field treatment, but he was a damn good hitter. And I feel like Jeff Kent should be getting more love, considering Piazza is only in for his bat too.

[redsrule]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Walker's park adjusted numbers should have him in the hall. Being that low is so dumb.

The 10 person rule is really hurting people here. Like Edmonds who should have definitely got 5% of votes. Not saying he's a hall of famer, but he shouldn't be one and done either.

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[Master Live 013]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Nomar, Jeter and (not damaged yet) A-Rod. Those were the days my man, those were the days.

[Blzer]

Re: 2016 H.O.F Discussion

Walker's park adjusted numbers should have him in the hall. Being that low is so dumb.

The 10 person rule is really hurting people here. Like Edmonds who should have definitely got 5% of votes. Not saying he's a hall of famer, but he shouldn't be one and done either.

Are there always the same number of people on the ballot? Or does it fluctuate year-in and year-out?

If the latter, meesa thinks the number to vote for should fluctuate all depending on that number. If there were 100 players to choose from instead of like 20, I think that would be pretty cruel to only limit the vote to ten players.

That's an extreme example, but you get what I'm saying.