2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

[Scott]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Blue Jays contemplating Andrew Cashner.

Would be a great pickup, was fantastic for Texas last year.


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[PhilliesFan13]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Boras is a turd.

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[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

https://mobile.twitter.com/Shoco_LAA17Fs11/status/961869591528943616

Shohei BP

[KSUowls]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

The Diamondbacks signed Zack Greinke, are they one of the top 10 most financially successful teams? The Mariners signed Cano, and kept Felix. The Brewers signed Lorenzo Cain, the Rockies just paid big money to get Wade Davis. It's so outdated. In the last 5 years how many big free agents have the Yankees signed? Tanaka? I'm sure there's more but the Evil Empire just doesn't exist in the same way. I just don't see the market trending the way you do I guess. Big market teams will always have an advantage to a degree, but money talks. We're waiting for the Phillies to run into their new TV deal and throw big money at Trout because we already know they have it. They were the most profitable team 2 years ago. Sure it sucks on the back end of the 10 year A-Rod deal, the first 5 were awesome. That's the price we paid.

I'm seeing Kimbrel having signed a 4/42 extension, if that contract was putting them under they should have sold the team. And they certainly shouldn't have gone to the public and asked for public funds to build their stadium. As it is, it's impossible to feel bad for them. They say their revenue decline comes from lower game attendance and less concession sales, they're compounding the issue by making the team worse.

I just looked at a chart that shows total player compensation going down from almost 70% of revenue to a little over 50%. The money is there, it's just not going to the players. If half the league isn't going to pay anyone and would rather use their team as an ATM, then get rid of revenue sharing and the luxury tax and let the teams that will compete. Record revenues, TV deals coming in all over the place, and free money from the BamTech deal, and I'm supposed to believe the Braves can't afford to sign anyone?

I also just don't get the mentality. The Knicks suck, I don't want every other team to suck. That's just the burden we as Knicks fans carry. Why, because your team is broke, would you want every other team to operate in the same way? Do you honestly believe the "salary correction" is best for the league or best for the Braves?

The Brewers opened the 2017 season with one of the lowest team payroll in baseball, so it could be said they had some flexibility. Also, 3 things to note. 1 - They had additional flexibility with Garza coming off the books
2 - Cain's deal is relatively cheap compared to what we've seen recent deals in other years and what we've heard the asking price is on some of the other top players. 5 & $80 is a relative steal.
3 - I wonder how good it will be for the fans of Milwaukee a few years down the road when a quarter of their payroll is occupied by 1 player in his mid 30s.

Similar to the Brewers, the D-backs opened up money the same year they signed Grienke.

The Cano might work, but that would be the exception to the rule. The Mariners also fall just a little outside of the top 10 in revenue which doesn't hurt either.

The Yankees have been cutting payroll in recent years and still the top 3 guys on their 2018 payroll would be the largest annual salary in Braves history.

No, I wasn't talking about Kimbrel putting them under. I'm talking about a fan base having to watch one of the best players at his position in the entire MLB added in a trade as an incentive to get out of a $75 million mistake because there wasn't any financial flexibility at that point on a team that only won 79 games the year prior. I know 4/42 + 5/75 isn't much when your team pulls in nearly double the league average in revenue, but when you're revenue stream is league average (which actually makes up most of the MLB minus a few outliers at the top and just a couple at the bottom)

I'm not sure what chart you're looking at, but the Forbes data I saw had the league average revenue of the top team $456m. The average of the middle 20 teams was $282m. How that should affect the MLB is a different discussion all together, but it's a very relevant discussion when we're showing why the majority of teams in baseball making ~$174million less in top line revenue can't afford 3 different players at $20 million a year and still fill out a decent 25 man roster.

I honestly don't know how you inferred that I want the Yankees or other top revenue teams to "suck" by saying the market correction is good for baseball. The Yankees aren't suddenly incapable of signing the players they want. They actually have more flexibility to sign players as the market reverts to the mean. It does possibly result in fans of a team like Maimi not seeing the best player their franchise's history sold off because he has a $300 million contract that other teams can afford though.

Do you honestly think it's good for the game of baseball that a handful of teams are able to dominate the personnel market because salary demands have become so high? Or is it just best for the Yankees? I can't answer for you,, but I know my answer from earlier benefits the competitive balance of more than just a handful of teams.

edit - I said this in an earlier post but it's relevant again.
I don't begrudge players for wanting every dollar, and I don't really love how owners do the whole money grab thing. Neither of those are relevant when it comes to the fans paying to be entertained in all of this though. Having the market such that the fans in the majority of MLB cities either have to say bye to X player they've loved watching for the last 5 years or see their team incapable of filling out a solid roster because Y player was signed for $150 million just isn't good for the game.

[Bard]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

https://mobile.twitter.com/Shoco_LAA...69591528943616

Shohei BP

He has a very smooth swing, but I want him to try and hit off of some of the elites and see how he does.

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[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

The Brewers opened the 2017 season with one of the lowest team payroll in baseball, so it could be said they had some flexibility. Also, 3 things to note. 1 - They had additional flexibility with Garza coming off the books
2 - Cain's deal is relatively cheap compared to what we've seen recent deals in other years and what we've heard the asking price is on some of the other top players. 5 & $80 is a relative steal.
3 - I wonder how good it will be for the fans of Milwaukee a few years down the road when a quarter of their payroll is occupied by 1 player in his mid 30s.

Similar to the Brewers, the D-backs opened up money the same year they signed Grienke.

The Cano might work, but that would be the exception to the rule. The Mariners also fall just a little outside of the top 10 in revenue which doesn't hurt either.

The Yankees have been cutting payroll in recent years and still the top 3 guys on their 2018 payroll would be the largest annual salary in Braves history.

No, I wasn't talking about Kimbrel putting them under. I'm talking about a fan base having to watch one of the best players at his position in the entire MLB added in a trade as an incentive to get out of a $75 million mistake because there wasn't any financial flexibility at that point on a team that only won 79 games the year prior. I know 4/42 + 5/75 isn't much when your team pulls in nearly double the league average in revenue, but when you're revenue stream is league average (which actually makes up most of the MLB minus a few outliers at the top and just a couple at the bottom)

I'm not sure what chart you're looking at, but the Forbes data I saw had the league average revenue of the top team $456m. The average of the middle 20 teams was $282m. How that should affect the MLB is a different discussion all together, but it's a very relevant discussion when we're showing why the majority of teams in baseball making ~$174million less in top line revenue can't afford 3 different players at $20 million a year and still fill out a decent 25 man roster.

I honestly don't know how you inferred that I want the Yankees or other top revenue teams to "suck" by saying the market correction is good for baseball. The Yankees aren't suddenly incapable of signing the players they want. They actually have more flexibility to sign players as the market reverts to the mean. It does possibly result in fans of a team like Maimi not seeing the best player their franchise's history sold off because he has a $300 million contract that other teams can afford though.

Do you honestly think it's good for the game of baseball that a handful of teams are able to dominate the personnel market because salary demands have become so high? Or is it just best for the Yankees? Based on the above I think I can guess your answer, but what I can tell you for certain is that my answer benefits the competitive balance of more than just a handful of teams.

TL;DR: Evil Empire = exploding revenues, rising salaries, flourishing union, revenue sharing. Salary correction = stagnant offseason and immediate talks of future work stoppage.

Spoiler

I see you're referring to someone else with that 5/75. I don't know why they've gone nameless this whole time, I thought you were saying he signed the contract himself.

I am on my phone now and can't find the same chart but found this:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/deadspin.com/mlb-has-a-big-money-problem-1742117953/amp

If someone wants a "salary correction", they want teams to stop spending so much money. The parallel was the Knicks sucking and the Braves being broke, to all NBA teams sucking and all MLB teams being broke, not to them sucking, I thought that was clear.

Also so the Marlins sign a guy to a contract that everyone and their mom knew at the time they had no intention of paying, and now they need a favor done for them to curb salaries? These owners can't pay for that kind of defense from fans.

I think that while the Yankees were signing everyone, league revenues were skyrocketing and revenue sharing came into play to make sure these small market teams could exist in the first place. So when you ask if what's best for the Yankees is best for the league, I'd argue probably, a rising tide lifts all boats. Now how does a "salary correction" benefit a league setting record numbers every year? The Yankees pioneered the TV deals that's bringing in extra money to all of these teams. This will be fun, I'd actually be interested to hear an argument for why what's best for the Yankees isn't what's best for the league in this instance. And if you're talking about fans feelings instead of the pay of the people who actually play the game, I think that's where we differ.

And my question wasn't rhetorical nor was it sarcastic, do you believe this will be better for the league? It seems to me to be some kinda trickle down baseball economics, like if the owners have more money, they'll spend more money, and I have little reason to believe that's the case for the vast majority of the league, with Bob Nutting simultaneously suing the city of Pittsburgh for stadium renovations and also bidding on newspapers around the country.

[The Kid 24]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Rays sign Sergio Romo to 1 yr deal.

[sweny5632]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

He has a very smooth swing, but I want him to try and hit off of some of the elites and see how he does.

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Was gonna say the same thing. I could watch that swing all day long, its gorgeous. Ok i might be going through some baseball withdrawals...

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[SPTO]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

I would NOT be opposed to the Jays signing Cashner. I hope it happens.

Rays sign Sergio Romo to 1 yr deal.

Wow, didn't know he was still kicking around.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Wow, didn't know he was still kicking around.

He looked pretty much done before he got to TB last season, but did pretty well for them.

[Majingir]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Rays sign Sergio Romo to 1 yr deal.

Sad part, when I read these headlines (it said "Rays sign Romo"), I thought "Look what you did Yankees/Russell Wilson, now Tony Romo is going to the Rays".

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Some of his guys are gonna go. Most will train at the Boras Athletes Performance Centers in Los Angeles or Miami. Also, some players already under contract will be attending as well before they have to report to their camps as a showing of solidarity.

I'd imagine Boras would spell it "Centres"

Is there really that much difference between Darvish, Arrietta, and Lynn?

Perhaps Darvish by a tiny bit...but the numbers for all three compare pretty well. Lynn's agent should be touting the fact that he is a year younger than Arrietta and put up number that were every bit as good over a couple dozen more innings.

As a Cubs fan, I wouldn't mind signing any of them...but Darvish and Arrietta want too much over too long...Lynn will be a value pick when he signs for less than them.

Bruh, it's a bad look when a Cubs fan misspells Arrieta. 2 r's and 1 t.

I think Darvish and Arrieta are about equally valued. Lynn should not be valued close to them. His 7.39 K/9 and 3.77 BB/9 falls well short of Arrieta's 8.71 K/9 and 2.94 BB/9 and Yu Darvish's 10.08 K/9 and 2.80 BB/9 last year. Lynn really isn't in the same league as those guys if you look a bit past wins and ERA. Lance Lynn's ERA beat his FIP by a run and a half last year; no sane front office in baseball is going to take that at face value.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

So Bruce Levine says the deal to JD is actually 5/110, further confirming we have no idea what's going on and everything is a rumor. I'm sure we'll find out in a week their final offer was 4/90 lol.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

So Bruce Levine says the deal to JD is actually 5/110, further confirming we have no idea what's going on and everything is a rumor. I'm sure we'll find out in a week their final offer was 4/90 lol.

...and I'd still argue that is too much for JD. Look, the man is 30, is a defensive liability, and in 7 MLB seasons has played a full season ONCE. The only thing he brings to the table is power...and unfortunately for him, that isn't hard to find in the majors right now.

[DieHardYankee26]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

...and I'd still argue that is too much for JD. Look, the man is 30, is a defensive liability, and in 7 MLB seasons has played a full season ONCE. The only thing he brings to the table is power...and unfortunately for him, that isn't hard to find in the majors right now.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall for the negotiations and see what numbers both sides are really throwing around. I feel like even if you were to assume that DHing would help him play full seasons more often...then it's just like, how much is a top flight DH getting paid? We kinda saw this with Edwin, and he ended up signing for 3/60 with a team option for a 4th year. Edwin was older, but a pretty good comparison stats wise.

J.D. might've had better luck as the guy willing to take 25 mil a year among the 30+ million dollar players next year as opposed to being the leading guy this year.

I don't know if someone posted this but Heyman wrote about all of this:

https://www.fanragsports.com/mlb/inside-baseball-no-end-in-sight-to-baseballs-messy-winter/

Now that says he's got multiple 100+ million offers but they're far below his asking price. Then Yu apparently turned down a 5/110 from someone because he wants Strasburg money. I looked at Strasburg's contract on Spotrac and as far as I'm concerned it's unreadable lol, all the deferrals.