2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

[jeffy777]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Arrieta wasn't the driving force in the cubs world series

Yeah, we could name around 10 guys on the 2016 Cubs that were more of a driving force than Arrieta.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

All you Cubs fans cracking me up...Arrieta was an absolutely KEY component to the team winning the World Series in 2016. He had an outstanding 2016...acting like he was the 11th best player on that team or something is just ridiculous. I get it...it's the typical behavior after a breakup, but you are better than this.

[TripleCrown9]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

All you Cubs fans cracking me up...Arrieta was an absolutely KEY component to the team winning the World Series in 2016. He had an outstanding 2016...acting like he was the 11th best player on that team or something is just ridiculous. I get it...it's the typical behavior after a breakup, but you are better than this.

I was under the impression they were saying he wasn't the sole reason they won (i.e. driving force).

Could be mistaken but that's how I read it.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

I was under the impression they were saying he wasn't the sole reason they won (i.e. driving force).

Could be mistaken but that's how I read it.

No one player in baseball is ever the "sole" reason a team wins, so I thought they were saying he wasn't a key component...for example, you have a post above that states there were 10 players more important to them winning.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

No one player in baseball is ever the "sole" reason a team wins, so I thought they were saying he wasn't a key component...for example, you have a post above that states there were 10 players more important to them winning.

That’s one post from one person. There’s a difference between being a component and THE “driving force.” He was an important piece, but not THE most important.


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[Sportsforever]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

That’s one post from one person. There’s a difference between being a component and THE “driving force.” He was an important piece, but not THE most important.


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Just curious; who would you say was the "driving force" or most important piece to the Cubs World Series win?

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

No one player in baseball is ever the "sole" reason a team wins, so I thought they were saying he wasn't a key component...for example, you have a post above that states there were 10 players more important to them winning.

Which is why the original comment that spawned this is silly.

But, Arrieta might not have been in the top 10 players responsible for the Cubs' winning run in 2016...Let's see...Jon Lester, Aroldis Chapman, Kyle Hendricks, Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber, Anthony Rizzo, Javier Baez, Addison Russell, Ben Zobrist, Dexter Fowler...that's 10 players? I'd argue that each one was more fundamental to the Cubs winning it all. Arrieta didn't have a bad year, but the team was loaded.

If you just want to go by WAR, Arrieta was 8th on the 2016 Cubs team. Ahead of Schwarber, Baez, and Chapman. But, it's hard to argue the importance of those 3 in the playoffs and World Series.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Which is why the original comment that spawned this is silly.

But, Arrieta might not have been in the top 10 players responsible for the Cubs' winning run in 2016...Let's see...Jon Lester, Aroldis Chapman, Kyle Hendricks, Kris Bryant, Kyle Schwarber, Anthony Rizzo, Javier Baez, Addison Russell, Ben Zobrist, Dexter Fowler...that's 11 players? I'd argue that each one was more fundamental to the Cubs winning it all. Arrieta didn't have a bad year, but the team was loaded.

If you just want to go by WAR, Arrieta was 8th on the 2016 Cubs team. Ahead of Schwarber, Baez, and Chapman. But, it's hard to argue the importance of those 3 in the playoffs and World Series.

No way I'd even put Schwarber on the list...I am a big "regular" season guy (you have to win in the regular season to even get to the post-season, so that matters...at least if I understood the context of the comment). I guess I just think it's hilarious that now that the Cubs have moved on, it's all "oh, Jake wasn't that good anyway...I mean, he wasn't even a force in us winning it all in 2016". At least give the man his due!

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

No way I'd even put Schwarber on the list...I am a big "regular" season guy (you have to win in the regular season to even get to the post-season, so that matters...at least if I understood the context of the comment). I guess I just think it's hilarious that now that the Cubs have moved on, it's all "oh, Jake wasn't that good anyway...I mean, he wasn't even a force in us winning it all in 2016". At least give the man his due!

That's fine. But take away Schwarber in the World Series, and I bet Cleveland ends up winning.

I think you might be reading a bit far into how Cubs fans are "reacting." Jake Arrieta was an important Cub and a fan favorite. He was part of an absolute heist of a trade with Baltimore. He won a Cy Young and was one of the best pitchers the game has ever seen for about 18 months. That said, he's turning 32 and his 2017 season was worse than 2016, which was way worse than 2015. He's lost velocity. He's walking more guys. He's not JAKE ARRIETA anymore--not the guy that was no hitting the Dodgers and Reds and clamping down on the Pirates in the Wild Card game. Darvish is better. It's really that simple. Nobody is saying that Arrieta is terrible, which is what I think you are trying to infer or deduce. We Cubs fans (speaking for my kind here) just see the situation soberly is all.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

That's fine. But take away Schwarber in the World Series, and I bet Cleveland ends up winning.

I think you might be reading a bit far into how Cubs fans are "reacting." Jake Arrieta was an important Cub and a fan favorite. He was part of an absolute heist of a trade with Baltimore. He won a Cy Young and was one of the best pitchers the game has ever seen for about 18 months. That said, he's turning 32 and his 2017 season was worse than 2016, which was way worse than 2015. He's lost velocity. He's walking more guys. He's not JAKE ARRIETA anymore--not the guy that was no hitting the Dodgers and Reds and clamping down on the Pirates in the Wild Card game. Darvish is better. It's really that simple. Nobody is saying that Arrieta is terrible, which is what I think you are trying to infer or deduce. We Cubs fans (speaking for my kind here) just see the situation soberly is all.

I agree with all of that...which is why when framing the discussion it should be about what he would do GOING forward. Instead I'm seeing discussion about what he has done in 2016/2017, which was pretty darn good to be honest. Not 2015 good, but still very good. I've seen you guys talking all offseason about how you want to re-sign him, don't want to see him in another uniform, etc, and now that the Cubs get Darvish it feels like "meh, good riddance Jake".

[WaitTilNextYear]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

Just curious; who would you say was the "driving force" or most important piece to the Cubs World Series win?

If I'm taking the bait on this one, I'd say that Lester was the pitching MVP of that team and Bryant was the overall MVP (and league MVP). There are about a half-dozen other guys that you could reasonably insert here.

[Jr.]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

I guess I just think it's hilarious that now that the Cubs have moved on, it's all "oh, Jake wasn't that good anyway...I mean, he wasn't even a force in us winning it all in 2016". At least give the man his due!

This is when there's no sense in continuing discussion. You are hyperbolizing what people are saying. No one said he wasn't any good. No one is saying he wasn't an important piece. The statement is that he was THE driving force.. meaning that he was the reason. That's just simply not true by any metric or category you want to use.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

This is when there's no sense in continuing discussion. You are hyperbolizing what people are saying. No one said he wasn't any good. No one is saying he wasn't an important piece. The statement is that he was THE driving force.. meaning that he was the reason. That's just simply not true by any metric or category you want to use.

I agree with that statement. You will absolutely never get me to say "one player is the driving force"...and I thought that you guys would agree that as well. When you say a baseball player is a "driving force" that means "key component" to me. I just can't agree that he wasn't a key component...that's all I'm saying.

[Jr.]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

I agree with that statement. You will absolutely never get me to say "one player is the driving force"...and I thought that you guys would agree that as well. When you say a baseball player is a "driving force" that means "key component" to me. I just can't agree that he wasn't a key component...that's all I'm saying.

Then we're just talking about technicalities and semantics. Jake was great with the Cubs and I would have loved to see him back, but that seemingly was never in the plans. I just don't want to see him in Milwaukee because **** Milwaukee

[BleacherBum2310]

Re: 2017-2018 MLB Hot Stove Thread

all they were saying is he wasn't the driving force. we loved Arrieta and his 2015 season is one of filthiest seasons I can ever recall. if he was still that guy they would've brought him back sadly he's not even close to that guy while still pretty good though. Darvish over him seems like an easy call.