Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

[glucklich]

On OTL last night there was an interesting discussion on this. They had two HOF voters on and one said that the holder of this record should make him an exception in spite of not having gawdy career numbers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/marisro01.shtml). It was interesting because the anti-Maris guest said if you let Maris in you should also let Brady Anderson in for the same reason. The pro-Maris guest later said that Mazeroski is in as a .260 hitter (the anti Maris guest was from Pittsburgh, something Cook). The anti-Maris person then said its flawed to compare Maris to Mazeroski but didnt reconciled how or why its flawed to make this comparison but comparing Brady Anderson hitting 50 to someone hitting 61 is not flawed. The point was raised that Maris' record existed longer than Ruths which preceded it and it was also acknowledged that some would say it still exists in the minds of many. They also discussed how adept Maris was at immeasurables such as playing RF and running the bases. With todays performence enhancement issues in front of us it was suggested there might be a ground swell, sort of a nostalgic movement to put Maris in as he has come to represent a certain purity. Did you guys see this and do you think that Maris will pick up steam in terms of getting in?

[fugazi]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

He deserves, if nothing else, an sort of "honorable mention" spot. There are a bunch of tools in the HOF--Maz, Rizzuto--so Maris could be in there. There is not much of a solid argument against it, as his name is ubiquitously known in Baseball.

As it is, like many other, Rose, Santo, etc. he resides in the REAL baseball HOF....the minds and memories of the fans and in the legacy of the game itself.

McGwire will get in.......

[fugazi]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

He deserves, if nothing else, an sort of "honorable mention" spot. There are a bunch of tools in the HOF--Maz, Rizzuto--so Maris could be in there. There is not much of a solid argument against it, as his name is ubiquitously known in Baseball.

As it is, like many other, Rose, Santo, etc. he resides in the REAL baseball HOF....the minds and memories of the fans and in the legacy of the game itself.

McGwire will get in.......

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

do you think that Maris will pick up steam in terms of getting in?

God I hope not, Mazeroski didnt deserve it either, though to be fair he played a lot more games and was more generally known for his fielding.

Maris just didnt play enough games, get enough hits, do enough of anything to back up his performance in 1961. Maz shouldnt be there either, but at least I feel its a bit more justifiable than Maris.

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

do you think that Maris will pick up steam in terms of getting in?

God I hope not, Mazeroski didnt deserve it either, though to be fair he played a lot more games and was more generally known for his fielding.

Maris just didnt play enough games, get enough hits, do enough of anything to back up his performance in 1961. Maz shouldnt be there either, but at least I feel its a bit more justifiable than Maris.

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

God I hope not, Mazeroski didnt deserve it either, though to be fair he played a lot more games and was more generally known for his fielding.

Maris just didnt play enough games, get enough hits, do enough of anything to back up his performance in 1961. Maz shouldnt be there either, but at least I feel its a bit more justifiable than Maris.

So you feel an emphasis should be placed on career numbers? Do you think there is any circumstance where a player might get in for one season? What if say, some rookie hits 61 or more and following that season dies in a plane crash, would he be HOF worthy?

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

God I hope not, Mazeroski didnt deserve it either, though to be fair he played a lot more games and was more generally known for his fielding.

Maris just didnt play enough games, get enough hits, do enough of anything to back up his performance in 1961. Maz shouldnt be there either, but at least I feel its a bit more justifiable than Maris.

So you feel an emphasis should be placed on career numbers? Do you think there is any circumstance where a player might get in for one season? What if say, some rookie hits 61 or more and following that season dies in a plane crash, would he be HOF worthy?

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

So you feel an emphasis should be placed on career numbers? Do you think there is any circumstance where a player might get in for one season? What if say, some rookie hits 61 or more and following that season dies in a plane crash, would he be HOF worthy?

Emphasis should be on sustaining career numbers over a lengthy career that is not beset by death (Clemente) or premature end due to unforseeable circumstances (J. Jackson).

There would of course be exceptions to the rule like Sandy Koufax, but those could be dealt with on a case by case basis. I definately dont think that one season should ever be a driver for HOF induction.

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

So you feel an emphasis should be placed on career numbers? Do you think there is any circumstance where a player might get in for one season? What if say, some rookie hits 61 or more and following that season dies in a plane crash, would he be HOF worthy?

Emphasis should be on sustaining career numbers over a lengthy career that is not beset by death (Clemente) or premature end due to unforseeable circumstances (J. Jackson).

There would of course be exceptions to the rule like Sandy Koufax, but those could be dealt with on a case by case basis. I definately dont think that one season should ever be a driver for HOF induction.

[Ed_Farias]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

The Hall of Fame voting is such a joke now. It's a freaking popularity contest just like voting for Student body president back in high school.

And do I think Maris should be in the hall of fame? No, his career numbers are not that great.

Jim Rice on the other hand, should have been in there long ago. But whatever, I get tired of arguing the Jim Rice case. I just let his career stats speak for themselves. But I guess to todays standards, hitting 384 homers, career BA of .298 and over 1400 RBIs just isn't enough. Even though all those numbers are leaps and bounds better than Ryne Sandberg and Gary Carter's. To name a few of the last few years of inducties.

I just think the whole hall of fame voting is ONE of the biggest jokes in baseball right now.

[Ed_Farias]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

The Hall of Fame voting is such a joke now. It's a freaking popularity contest just like voting for Student body president back in high school.

And do I think Maris should be in the hall of fame? No, his career numbers are not that great.

Jim Rice on the other hand, should have been in there long ago. But whatever, I get tired of arguing the Jim Rice case. I just let his career stats speak for themselves. But I guess to todays standards, hitting 384 homers, career BA of .298 and over 1400 RBIs just isn't enough. Even though all those numbers are leaps and bounds better than Ryne Sandberg and Gary Carter's. To name a few of the last few years of inducties.

I just think the whole hall of fame voting is ONE of the biggest jokes in baseball right now.

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

The Hall of Fame voting is such a joke now. It's a freaking popularity contest just like voting for Student body president back in high school.

And do I think Maris should be in the hall of fame? No, his career numbers are not that great.

Jim Rice on the other hand, should have been in there long ago. But whatever, I get tired of arguing the Jim Rice case. I just let his career stats speak for themselves. But I guess to todays standards, hitting 384 homers, career BA of .298 and over 1400 RBIs just isn't enough. Even though all those numbers are leaps and bounds better than Ryne Sandberg and Gary Carter's. To name a few of the last few years of inducties.

I just think the whole hall of fame voting is ONE of the biggest jokes in baseball right now.

I agree it is a joke. This Cook guy on one hand lauds Maz as the greatest 2B ever for his defense but evidently Maris was also a great defensive RF but because he had that great season seems to be penalized for it. I understand that the corner positions (3B, 1B, RF, LF) are viewed as offensive positions while SS and 2B are looked at as defensive positions but hes drawing a very arbitrary line especially when you consider hes from Pittsburgh. I think Rice should get in as well as Gossage but at all costs, not Pete Rose.

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

The Hall of Fame voting is such a joke now. It's a freaking popularity contest just like voting for Student body president back in high school.

And do I think Maris should be in the hall of fame? No, his career numbers are not that great.

Jim Rice on the other hand, should have been in there long ago. But whatever, I get tired of arguing the Jim Rice case. I just let his career stats speak for themselves. But I guess to todays standards, hitting 384 homers, career BA of .298 and over 1400 RBIs just isn't enough. Even though all those numbers are leaps and bounds better than Ryne Sandberg and Gary Carter's. To name a few of the last few years of inducties.

I just think the whole hall of fame voting is ONE of the biggest jokes in baseball right now.

I agree it is a joke. This Cook guy on one hand lauds Maz as the greatest 2B ever for his defense but evidently Maris was also a great defensive RF but because he had that great season seems to be penalized for it. I understand that the corner positions (3B, 1B, RF, LF) are viewed as offensive positions while SS and 2B are looked at as defensive positions but hes drawing a very arbitrary line especially when you consider hes from Pittsburgh. I think Rice should get in as well as Gossage but at all costs, not Pete Rose.

[Ed_Farias]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

Yeah, since Rose has admitted he bet on baseball I have no respect for the guy. But he did break a record I am not sure I see anyone breaking. Like I said, there should be some other kind of section in the HOF for those that broke records or something. Maris and Rose can be in that, maybe.

Still pissed about Rice LOL. One of the biggest things against him is because he played half of his career at Fenway so it pumped his numbers. But I guess the 300+ porch in Yankee stadium is ok. Whatever.

[Ed_Farias]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

Yeah, since Rose has admitted he bet on baseball I have no respect for the guy. But he did break a record I am not sure I see anyone breaking. Like I said, there should be some other kind of section in the HOF for those that broke records or something. Maris and Rose can be in that, maybe.

Still pissed about Rice LOL. One of the biggest things against him is because he played half of his career at Fenway so it pumped his numbers. But I guess the 300+ porch in Yankee stadium is ok. Whatever.