Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

[Misfit]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

I don't think anyone should be in the HOF for a single season, period. The only exception I could possible think of would be if a rookie exploded onto the scene and broke the single season homerun record, strikeout record, or wins record in a sheer dominating fashion reserved only for video games and then had his career cut short by a tragedy. Maris can be recognised for having broken Ruth's record, thats all he deseves. He doesn't deserve to be in the hall simply because he wasn't a great baseball player. Regardless of whether or not someone else is in there right now that shouldn't be, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Misfit]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

I don't think anyone should be in the HOF for a single season, period. The only exception I could possible think of would be if a rookie exploded onto the scene and broke the single season homerun record, strikeout record, or wins record in a sheer dominating fashion reserved only for video games and then had his career cut short by a tragedy. Maris can be recognised for having broken Ruth's record, thats all he deseves. He doesn't deserve to be in the hall simply because he wasn't a great baseball player. Regardless of whether or not someone else is in there right now that shouldn't be, two wrongs don't make a right.

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

He doesn't deserve to be in the hall simply because he wasn't a great baseball player. Regardless of whether or not someone else is in there right now that shouldn't be, two wrongs don't make a right.

But see thats the point. Someone thought Rizzuto was good enough to be in and, that being the case, he became a measuring stick for being "good enough" to get in and therefore those who are better than him are good enough to get in. You can spin it that way as well. Saying two wrongs dont make a right implies one is wrong, when many of the people reference Rizzuto are saying its wrong for someone like Rizzuto to be in and not Maris, say. Im sure they do have an opinion on Rizzuto being in but this argument speaks to the fact that the "wrong" is this injustice.

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

He doesn't deserve to be in the hall simply because he wasn't a great baseball player. Regardless of whether or not someone else is in there right now that shouldn't be, two wrongs don't make a right.

But see thats the point. Someone thought Rizzuto was good enough to be in and, that being the case, he became a measuring stick for being "good enough" to get in and therefore those who are better than him are good enough to get in. You can spin it that way as well. Saying two wrongs dont make a right implies one is wrong, when many of the people reference Rizzuto are saying its wrong for someone like Rizzuto to be in and not Maris, say. Im sure they do have an opinion on Rizzuto being in but this argument speaks to the fact that the "wrong" is this injustice.

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

The 56 game hitting streak is a novelty.

I'm sorry, but that statement invalidates your arguments on anything baseball related

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

The 56 game hitting streak is a novelty.

I'm sorry, but that statement invalidates your arguments on anything baseball related

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

I'm sorry, but that statement invalidates your arguments on anything baseball related

OK, lets break it down. In 1941 Joe D played in 139 games and had 541 ABs on the season. Thats an average of 3.892 ABs per game. The concept of getting a hit in each game only ensures a batting average of .257; (1/3.892). This is why its a novelty. Of course he had more than one hit in some games. I cant remember exactly but I think he hit around .410 during the streak which is only slightly higher than what Williams hit for that entire season. Lets consider something else. Has there ever been a stretch of 56 games where someone had more hits albeit not hitting in each game? I would say its likely that someone has had more hits concentrated in 56 games but regardless, the point is that it becomes left pocket-right pocket at that point. 56 games may be rare and even hard to do but its not any more important than if someone has the same number of hits, in the same number of games, with the same amount of at bats. Like I said, its a novelty. Dont get me wrong theres something to be said about showing up and producing every day but this is easily one of the most overrated statistics in the history of sports EVER. I respect Joe D but this stat is massively overrated.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

I'm sorry, but that statement invalidates your arguments on anything baseball related

OK, lets break it down. In 1941 Joe D played in 139 games and had 541 ABs on the season. Thats an average of 3.892 ABs per game. The concept of getting a hit in each game only ensures a batting average of .257; (1/3.892). This is why its a novelty. Of course he had more than one hit in some games. I cant remember exactly but I think he hit around .410 during the streak which is only slightly higher than what Williams hit for that entire season. Lets consider something else. Has there ever been a stretch of 56 games where someone had more hits albeit not hitting in each game? I would say its likely that someone has had more hits concentrated in 56 games but regardless, the point is that it becomes left pocket-right pocket at that point. 56 games may be rare and even hard to do but its not any more important than if someone has the same number of hits, in the same number of games, with the same amount of at bats. Like I said, its a novelty. Dont get me wrong theres something to be said about showing up and producing every day but this is easily one of the most overrated statistics in the history of sports EVER. I respect Joe D but this stat is massively overrated.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml

[SportsTop]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

OK, lets break it down. In 1941 Joe D played in 139 games and had 541 ABs on the season. Thats an average of 3.892 ABs per game. The concept of getting a hit in each game only ensures a batting average of .257; (1/3.892). This is why its a novelty. Of course he had more than one hit in some games. I cant remember exactly but I think he hit around .410 during the streak which is only slightly higher than what Williams hit for that entire season. Lets consider something else. Has there ever been a stretch of 56 games where someone had more hits albeit not hitting in each game? I would say its likely that someone has had more hits concentrated in 56 games but regardless, the point is that it becomes left pocket-right pocket at that point. 56 games may be rare and even hard to do but its not any more important than if someone has the same number of hits, in the same number of games, with the same amount of at bats. Like I said, its a novelty. Dont get me wrong theres something to be said about showing up and producing every day but this is easily one of the most overrated statistics in the history of sports EVER. I respect Joe D but this stat is massively overrated.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml

Novelities don't usually stand for 63 years and counting. The fact is Joe D didn't bat .257 over the entire season. Take players that have had 35+ game hitting steaks....how many of them were average players?

Maris is recognized in the Hall of Fame for exactly what he should be. His career does not merit HOF credentials. As far as your Rizzuto argument: If Jeter and Rodriguez both retired today, guess who'd go in first.....Jeter. Intangibles go as much into HOF voting as they do in measuring how great a player truly is.

I never agreed with the Mazeroski vote and you have to remember that it was mostly due to his election that they changed the way HOF voting for the Veteran's Committee is conducted.

[SportsTop]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

OK, lets break it down. In 1941 Joe D played in 139 games and had 541 ABs on the season. Thats an average of 3.892 ABs per game. The concept of getting a hit in each game only ensures a batting average of .257; (1/3.892). This is why its a novelty. Of course he had more than one hit in some games. I cant remember exactly but I think he hit around .410 during the streak which is only slightly higher than what Williams hit for that entire season. Lets consider something else. Has there ever been a stretch of 56 games where someone had more hits albeit not hitting in each game? I would say its likely that someone has had more hits concentrated in 56 games but regardless, the point is that it becomes left pocket-right pocket at that point. 56 games may be rare and even hard to do but its not any more important than if someone has the same number of hits, in the same number of games, with the same amount of at bats. Like I said, its a novelty. Dont get me wrong theres something to be said about showing up and producing every day but this is easily one of the most overrated statistics in the history of sports EVER. I respect Joe D but this stat is massively overrated.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/d/dimagjo01.shtml

Novelities don't usually stand for 63 years and counting. The fact is Joe D didn't bat .257 over the entire season. Take players that have had 35+ game hitting steaks....how many of them were average players?

Maris is recognized in the Hall of Fame for exactly what he should be. His career does not merit HOF credentials. As far as your Rizzuto argument: If Jeter and Rodriguez both retired today, guess who'd go in first.....Jeter. Intangibles go as much into HOF voting as they do in measuring how great a player truly is.

I never agreed with the Mazeroski vote and you have to remember that it was mostly due to his election that they changed the way HOF voting for the Veteran's Committee is conducted.

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

Novelities don't usually stand for 63 years and counting. The fact is Joe D didn't bat .257 over the entire season. Take players that have had 35+ game hitting steaks....how many of them were average players?

Im surprised you quoted me since I already said that I thought Joe D hit around .410 during the streak. I already said that in some of the games he had more than one hit. Your point about him not hitting .257 isnt one really for that reason. But the idea behind a hitting streak is something that could conceivably lead to someone hitting .257...this is the result of getting exactly one hit in each game. Theres nothing special about hitting .257. If you want to say the streak was good because Joe D hit around .410 during 56 games that would be one thing but one is not required to hit in each game to hit .410 over 56 games. People who do that (hit .410 over 56 games) typically are pretty decent players as well.

[glucklich]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

Novelities don't usually stand for 63 years and counting. The fact is Joe D didn't bat .257 over the entire season. Take players that have had 35+ game hitting steaks....how many of them were average players?

Im surprised you quoted me since I already said that I thought Joe D hit around .410 during the streak. I already said that in some of the games he had more than one hit. Your point about him not hitting .257 isnt one really for that reason. But the idea behind a hitting streak is something that could conceivably lead to someone hitting .257...this is the result of getting exactly one hit in each game. Theres nothing special about hitting .257. If you want to say the streak was good because Joe D hit around .410 during 56 games that would be one thing but one is not required to hit in each game to hit .410 over 56 games. People who do that (hit .410 over 56 games) typically are pretty decent players as well.

[dieselboy]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

Doesn't deserve.

[dieselboy]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

Doesn't deserve.

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Does anyone foresee a day where Maris will be in the HOF?

Im surprised you quoted me since I already said that I thought Joe D hit around .410 during the streak. I already said that in some of the games he had more than one hit. Your point about him not hitting .257 isnt one really for that reason. But the idea behind a hitting streak is something that could conceivably lead to someone hitting .257...this is the result of getting exactly one hit in each game. Theres nothing special about hitting .257. If you want to say the streak was good because Joe D hit around .410 during 56 games that would be one thing but one is not required to hit in each game to hit .410 over 56 games. People who do that (hit .410 over 56 games) typically are pretty decent players as well.

The point of the matter is that he did something that every single player has tried to do every single game of every single season since, and nobody has ever gotten really that close to it - not even close enough for us to talk about it. I mean, Luis Castillo was what, 20 games away and the entire sports nation was buzzing about it... it is the one holy grail of baseball records, the one that it doesnt matter who you play for, where the fence distance and how much you bench doesnt factor in. Its something that anybody can do - I mean, anybody can hit .250 right?

Everybody has tried, every game, and NOBODY has ever come close. Not Williams, not Rose, not Gwynn... NOBODY. It is THE single season milestone in baseball, and absolutely phenomonal once you comprehend how difficult it is.