Boston Red Sox - 2006

[dkgojackets]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

The best part of that deal is the man playing 3rd base.

[cjonesfan921]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Beckett is and always was overrated to me. I never truly thought he was a great pitcher. He can be great at times but to inconsistent to be considered great.

[CWood2]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

The best part of that deal is the man playing 3rd base.

You mean the part we didn't want... that didn't help my front office, did it?

[Thrasha]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Radio reaction aside, I think it's fair to say that Theo and his boys need to step up this offseason. If we were going to settle for this team as it is now, we'd probably be better off keeping those two Marlins and one Indian ... since that would have accomplished the same thing - rebuilding, and with a smaller payroll. I don't envy the pressure to compete in Boston and how it conflicts with establishing a long term plan, but the disappointing performances coupled with some big seasons for those departing doesn't really work for me.

(Disclaimer: CWood did not just say the Beckett deal was a mistake based on an Anibal Sanchez no hitter. )

Definitely.

An infield of Marte, Hanley, Pedrioa, Youk, would be a nice way to save money. Although light on power, it would leave us enough salary space to pick up a heavy hitter that might be a liability down the line... Like a Carlos Lee.

Edit again: Would the offices at Fenway be on fire right now had Lowell completely bombed this year?

[CWood2]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Buster Olney kindly pointing out how much we suck at trades and assessing talent lately on Baseball Tonight right now... I think the Bard/Meredith trade to bring back Doug kinda sums it up on a smaller scale.

Similarly though, I think overpaying Carlos Lee would be somewhat of a panic move. I wouldn't want an all rookie infield either, and truthfully, we couldn't get away with it like we couldn't get away with NOT getting someone like Beckett to back Schill or a centerfielder when Stern was the guy before the games began. That doesn't make Josh or Coco any better, or the guys we gave up any worse, so I guess I can rule out being of any help to Theo.

Mix in the returning pressure to trade Manny after his "knee problems" (which would be a disaster) and a barren FA class... and you increase the pressure to make more big moves that could very well backfire. And as Moneyball pointed out when it was working for us, you lose when your hand is forced. Again, no hate towards Theo, Larry, or any of the key players who may or may not be working well together, but they've really got their work cut out for them this time as the blind faith many of us have extended runs out.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

It's the risk you take when you pull off a deal. The prospects the Sox dealt had no major league expirence. When you try to keep with the other teams in your division (Yankees- Damon; Blue Jays- Burnett) it's the risk you have to take. You know what you get out of Beckett. He is a major league pitcher who has an up down career. He is also young. Lowell is a gold glove third basemen who is coming off a lack lust year at the plate. Lowell suprised the AL with his offense. Beckett lived up to his ups and downs. Let's say we didn't make the deal, would the Sox be better? What would happen if the Hanley and Annibal was still in Triple A? Maybe the Yankees could have got Beckett for Philip Hughes and other prospects at the deadline if the Sox didn't trade for him.

[Thrasha]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Buster Olney kindly pointing out how much we suck at trades and assessing talent lately on Baseball Tonight right now... I think the Bard/Meredith trade to bring back Doug kinda sums it up on a smaller scale.

Similarly though, I think overpaying Carlos Lee would be somewhat of a panic move. I wouldn't want an all rookie infield either, and truthfully, we couldn't get away with it like we couldn't get away with NOT getting someone like Beckett to back Schill or a centerfielder when Stern was the guy before the games began. That doesn't make Josh or Coco any better, or the guys we gave up any worse, so I guess I can rule out being of any help to Theo.

Mix in the returning pressure to trade Manny after his "knee problems" (which would be a disaster) and a barren FA class... and you increase the pressure to make more big moves that could very well backfire. And as Moneyball pointed out when it was working for us, you lose when your hand is forced. Again, no hate towards Theo, Larry, or any of the key players who may or may not be working well together, but they've really got their work cut out for them this time as the blind faith many of us have extended runs out.

That infield wouldn't be implemented all at once. Marte would probably be starting next year. Hanley could have been brought up this year. Loretta would have been at second and Youk at first.

Then you could break in Pedrioa and Marte the next year. Besides, it's not like these guys are defensive slouches. Marte has ++ defense at 3rd, Youk has been great at first, and Hanley looks far from a liability at short.

Overpaying for a guy like Carlos Lee wouldn't be a panic move (keywords: a guy like). That would be using one of the advantages the Red Sox have over pretty much every other team in the league: money. Whereas the Yankees don't really need any rookies with low contracts to absorb those contracts. (Please Yankee fans, don't run in here screaming about Cano and Wang. Pavano's botched abortion of a contract offsets both of those.)

Their could have been filler found for CF for a year or two. If you're going to take a dive for a year or so and not plan to not make the playoffs, but anticipate a possible off year, I don't understand why the RS FO was in love with Coco enough to ship off one of the top two prospects in baseball for him. And I'm not taking this position because of the year Coco has had, I felt this way when the deal was made.

This year is feeling more and more like an abomination on the Red Sox front office part to properly evaluate talent. And as much as I love Theo, his best signing has been David Ortiz, albeit one incredible one, and something that has forever changed the course of this franchise, he's spit the bit on a number of others.

It's the risk you take when you pull off a deal. The prospects the Sox dealt had no major league expirence. When you try to keep with the other teams in your division (Yankees- Damon; Blue Jays- Burnett) it's the risk you have to take. You know what you get out of Beckett. He is a major league pitcher who has an up down career. He is also young. Lowell is a gold glove third basemen who is coming off a lack lust year at the plate. Lowell suprised the AL with his offense. Beckett lived up to his ups and downs. Let's say we didn't make the deal, would the Sox be better? What would happen if the Hanley and Annibal was still in Triple A? Maybe the Yankees could have got Beckett for Philip Hughes and other prospects at the deadline if the Sox didn't trade for him.

The point of questioning the Beckett trade isn't to wonder "Would be closer to the playoffs if we hadn't done the deal?" It's a look toward the future. This year is over. Next will pretty much be critical IMHO for this FO to atleast show it knows what it's doing again. (Awaits the 04 Championship people to start their tantrums). No one will ever forget 2004 and what they did. But lets not forget pretty much all key components to that team were here before hand, and the deals that were made weren't ones that showed the high intelligence and foresight that this FO supposedly posseses. The Schilling deal, although another great one that changed the course of this franchise, was not one where you say "Gee how did they think of that one?", same with Foulke.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Your right the FO have a lot of questions to answer this off season. This season is not over. We have the Royals coming in and I hope our offense can wake up. Then we have Baltimore. The Twins are going to have a dog fight with Tigers. Tigers are playing for the divison. If we are able to pick up at least 2 games (Twins lead by 6), we will only be out by 4 games with a 3 game series with the Twins still to come. Twins still have to play CWS still. I still have hope.

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Definitely.

An infield of Marte, Hanley, Pedrioa, Youk, would be a nice way to save money. Although light on power, it would leave us enough salary space to pick up a heavy hitter that might be a liability down the line... Like a Carlos Lee.

Edit again: Would the offices at Fenway be on fire right now had Lowell completely bombed this year?

And then we'd realize we're in the American League and that infield sucks. Hanley Ramirez has an OPS 80 points higher than Alex Gonzalez but he also has 15 more errors. What have Pedroia and Marte done to make people think they're anywhere near MLB ready when they can't even stay above the Mendoza line? Anibal Sanchez has very similar stats to Jon Lester right now, but his ERA is almost 2 runs lower.

Personally, I don't think the front office deserves all the blame others think it does. This team was a legitimate world series contendor if it didn't take all the injuries. You could make the argument that they should have foreseen injuries to guys like Clement, Foulke and Nixon but losing others like Wells, Wakefield and Varitek is what killed this years team.

I agree the front office has their work cut out for them, but I don't think this team would be any better off if they didn't make those trades. We're not an organization that takes 3-4 years to rebuild, which is what it would take to see some of these guys be legitmate every day players in the American league. You just can't throw a group of 22 year olds out there in Boston and expect them to succeed.

[Dice]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

And the Red Sox are doing the same to the White Sox, with the likes of Julian Tavarez and Kason Gabbard no less.

And with last night's win we're only 0.5 game out of the wild card and 4.5 out of the division. So what's your point?

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

And with last night's win we're only 0.5 game out of the wild card and 4.5 out of the division. So what's your point?

I think the point is, the White Sox should be embarrassed that they lost a series to a team that sent Julian Tavarez, Kason Gabbard and Kyle Snyder to the mound.

[Dice]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

I think the point is, the White Sox should be embarrassed that they lost a series to a team that sent Julian Tavarez, Kason Gabbard and Kyle Snyder to the mound.

Yeah. It was a crying shame that we couldn't beat a team that sent 3 AAA quality pitchers to the mound. BUT we are only 0.5 game out of the wild card and 4.5 out of the division. So in no way shape or form does this knock the White Sox out of playoff contention.

[GBrushTWood]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

The Schilling deal, although another great one that changed the course of this franchise, was not one where you say "Gee how did they think of that one?", same with Foulke.

I agree with most of your points, but not this one. The Curt Schilling trade was impressive because they were incredibly proactive about getting it done. They went out, before the Yankees did anything, made the offer to Arizona, flew out to Schilling's home in Arizona, then worked tirelessly over the holiday to get him to accept a contract extension in order to waive his no-trade clause. This is impressive work, and to me, is by no means trivial as you kind of make it seem in your post. I suppose if you were arguing in terms of talent given up (Fossum, De la Rosa, Lyon, and Goss), then it might seem like a joke in hindsight, but how can you pin blame on the Red Sox for fleecing Arizona?

In addition, everybody seemed to be hot and heavy after Javier Vazquez and Bartolo Colon at the time. I don't think anybody (the press, fans) even thought of acquiring Schilling until the rumors of the trade started spreading. The baseball ops team has made some questionable moves since the World Series, but I don't think you can go back and paint the Schilling transaction with a revisionist brush like that.

Also Foulke, who proved he was worth his high salary in 2004 as a premiere ace reliever.

[boston_sports_rule]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Is Coco going to be a one year player for the Sox?

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Is Coco going to be a one year player for the Sox?

I think it would be a mistake to get rid of him in a Renteria type deal. Obviously if you can package him for a premeir CF, I'd do it but it's not like we have a plethora of CF's waiting in the wings to take Coco's place.