Boston Red Sox - 2006

[Thrasha]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

This loss felt like a shower scene from OZ.

But I've gotta say when I saw Schilling was pitching tomorrow. A smirk came across my face.

Big game for him tomorrow.

Anyone else find it pretty ironic that Pauly gave up something like 6 runs his first start and got the ND, but then gives up 2 in 7 innings against the Yanks and gets the L? Amazing.

[heavyXBLLN]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Score another point for closer by committee. We lost a 1 run game in the late innings and our best reliever never got into the game.

You don't close a game you are losing by a run.

[heavyXBLLN]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Actually I probably wouldn't. Within this thread, I've probably been the Sox fan with the most patience for Rudy Seanez than anyone else. A tie game in the late innings though, you can't walk a guy with the bases loaded in that situation. He should get heat for that.

That's strictly box score stuff... Look at the game tape... Seanez was set up for failure. The fact that he surrendered only one run in that situation is almost miraculous.

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

You don't close a game you are losing by a run.

Point being, you use Papelbon in the 7th when we needed him most and maybe you don't go down by a run.

[heavyXBLLN]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Point being, you use Papelbon in the 7th when we needed him most and maybe you don't go down by a run.

In June, in the second game of a four game series, in a game that is tied?

NO WAY.

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

In June, in the second game of a four game series, in a game that is tied?

NO WAY.

Why not? The month is irrelevant, all wins and losses count the same, especially against the team you're probably going to be battling for the playoffs.

They would have pitched him had we taken a lead, so why not pitch him to keep the game tied? All I'm saying is I would rather have Papelbon pitch with the bases loaded and have Seanez come in later with the bases empty.

The goal should be to put your best pitchers in when they are needed the most, not to rack up saves. If you're worried about overusing him by pitching him in tie games, why not give him days off when they're up by 3 runs and he really isn't needed.

[heavyXBLLN]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Why not? The month is irrelevant, all wins and losses count the same, especially against the team you're probably going to be battling for the playoffs.

They would have pitched him had we taken a lead, so why not pitch him to keep the game tied? All I'm saying is I would rather have Papelbon pitch with the bases loaded and have Seanez come in later with the bases empty.

The goal should be to put your best pitchers in when they are needed the most, not to rack up saves. If you're worried about overusing him by pitching him in tie games, why not give him days off when they're up by 3 runs and he really isn't needed.

Well, first off, you'd have to have gotten him started started in the 6th, and if he did that everyone else would THEN be complaining how dumb Tito is.

Second, the month is NOT irrelevant. If you are going to use up your pitching staff like it's the 7th game of the ALCS EVERY GAME, then you are probably going to run out of gas before the All Star break.

Third, Papelbon is coming in 20-for-20. He's your closer, but he is still pretty much a rookie. Last thing you want to do is put him into a tie game this early with the bases loaded and risk rattling him in an unnecessary situation. The great unknown in this ballclub, the one that scares me the most, is: how will Papelbon react after the first time he blows a save? I don't want to put him into a situation where he is set up for failure unless the season really depends on it. And frankly, last night, it didn't.

Fourth, I AM worried about using him up. It's the second game of the series. You bring him into a tie game in the 7th, with Farnsworth and Rivera still out there, chances are the BEST Papelbon could do is keep it tied. Then what? How many innings? Who comes in after him? What do you do tomorrow and Thursday when Papelbon might have to sit after pitching way past his count? This was a Foulke/Timlin situation NOT Papelbon...

[ehh]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

ESPN Radio just reported that Wells' knee injury has likely ended his career. He hasn't made any progress in terms of recovery.

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Well, first off, you'd have to have gotten him started started in the 6th, and if he did that everyone else would THEN be complaining how dumb Tito is.

Between the hit by Damon, walk and mound visit, they could have gotten him warmed up.

Second, the month is NOT irrelevant. If you are going to use up your pitching staff like it's the 7th game of the ALCS EVERY GAME, then you are probably going to run out of gas before the All Star break.

I'm not saying they should do that every game, just situations where it makes sense. This wasn't an off day for Papelbon so why not use him to keep your team in the game and then rest him in a situation where he isn't needed as much. (2 or 3 run lead)

Third, Papelbon is coming in 20-for-20. He's your closer, but he is still pretty much a rookie. Last thing you want to do is put him into a tie game this early with the bases loaded and risk rattling him in an unnecessary situation. The great unknown in this ballclub, the one that scares me the most, is: how will Papelbon react after the first time he blows a save? I don't want to put him into a situation where he is set up for failure unless the season really depends on it. And frankly, last night, it didn't.

If he was the type of guy to get rattled by letting in a run, he wouldn't be 20 for 20. He's put in a situation where he's set up for failure every time he comes in a game and he's excelled at it.

Fourth, I AM worried about using him up. It's the second game of the series. You bring him into a tie game in the 7th, with Farnsworth and Rivera still out there, chances are the BEST Papelbon could do is keep it tied. Then what? How many innings? Who comes in after him? What do you do tomorrow and Thursday when Papelbon might have to sit after pitching way past his count? This was a Foulke/Timlin situation NOT Papelbon...

Like I said earlier, you can rest him in situations where he isn't needed as much, like 3 run saves. I wasn't suggesting that we use him for more than 1 out in the 7th and 3 outs in the 8th, which isn't any more than his normal work, and no more than he would have gotten had we taken a lead. You have to figure he was available for 3 games of this series.

I agree that it was a Foulke/Timlin situation but neither of them were available. Instead we should concede the game because you only want to use your best reliever in save situations?

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

ESPN Radio just reported that Wells' knee injury has likely ended his career. He hasn't made any progress in terms of recovery.

That doesn't surprise me. It's unfortunate because he was pitching so well in that game. It should be interesting to see how the Sox approach this. A rotation of Schilling, Wakefield, Beckett, Clement and Pauley just isn't that good with the way Beckett and Clement have been pitching.

[Thrasha]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

That doesn't surprise me. It's unfortunate because he was pitching so well in that game. It should be interesting to see how the Sox approach this. A rotation of Schilling, Wakefield, Beckett, Clement and Pauley just isn't that good with the way Beckett and Clement have been pitching.

Hopefully Beckett and Clement took notes on Pauley's performance last night...

[Thrasha]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Well, first off, you'd have to have gotten him started started in the 6th, and if he did that everyone else would THEN be complaining how dumb Tito is.

Second, the month is NOT irrelevant. If you are going to use up your pitching staff like it's the 7th game of the ALCS EVERY GAME, then you are probably going to run out of gas before the All Star break.

Third, Papelbon is coming in 20-for-20. He's your closer, but he is still pretty much a rookie. Last thing you want to do is put him into a tie game this early with the bases loaded and risk rattling him in an unnecessary situation. The great unknown in this ballclub, the one that scares me the most, is: how will Papelbon react after the first time he blows a save? I don't want to put him into a situation where he is set up for failure unless the season really depends on it. And frankly, last night, it didn't.

Fourth, I AM worried about using him up. It's the second game of the series. You bring him into a tie game in the 7th, with Farnsworth and Rivera still out there, chances are the BEST Papelbon could do is keep it tied. Then what? How many innings? Who comes in after him? What do you do tomorrow and Thursday when Papelbon might have to sit after pitching way past his count? This was a Foulke/Timlin situation NOT Papelbon...

I don't think you totally understand what a closer by committee is.

It's basically using your best reliever for that given situation.

Last night if you were using a CBC, Papelbon probably would have been brought in. But I can't argue too much with Seanez either. He's a strikeout pitcher and pretty much our least erractic guy in the BP control wise. (Although we know that's not saying a whole lot).

[Dispatch]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

I saw on the news that the Sox sent down van Buren (sp?) and brought up Craig Hansen. I wonder what this means??? Do you think they are getting ready to make Papelbon a Starter and Hansen the closer after awhile?

[Stu]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

I saw on the news that the Sox sent down van Buren (sp?) and brought up Craig Hansen. I wonder what this means??? Do you think they are getting ready to make Papelbon a Starter and Hansen the closer after awhile?

I wouldn't read too much into it. Van Buren was coming off a game where he pitched a couple innings and they needed an extra arm for the rest of the series. I'm not as opposed as most Red Sox fans in moving Papelbon back to the rotation, but I don't think Hansen is ready and it's not a move you can make with Timlin on the DL and Foulke hurting.

[Beantown]

Re: Boston Red Sox - 2006

Yeah...maybe once Timlin and Foulke get healthy, if Hansen doesn't doo too bad, you might see Papelbon move back into the rotation, but I doubt they take him out of a role where he's been the best closer this season.