2015 Atlanta Braves

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Sigh...another November, another day of heartache as a Braves fan. This is getting old fast.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

....initial reports were we were asking for Matt Harvey type talent, what happened?????????????????????????????????????????

They weren't being stupid anymore and got what they thought was a more reasonable trade. Also there is a difference in trading with someone with your own division and someone in the other league.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Don't forget, our top positional prospect is a Shortstop. So in the short term, this looks bad, but we can fill that role, and got a guy who could be an ace. Guy was very, very good across 3 levels last year. 2.38 era in 136 innings, 168 strikeouts. He's probably our top prospect now, and only 22.

I'll miss Simmons, but I really like Newcomb.

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[decga]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Don't forget, our top positional prospect is a Shortstop. So in the short term, this looks bad, but we can fill that role, and got a guy who could be an ace. Guy was very, very good across 3 levels last year. 2.38 era in 136 innings, 168 strikeouts. He's probably our top prospect now, and only 22.

I'll miss Simmons, but I really like Newcomb.

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Youre the fourth person that said they really like Newcomb. I am going check out his bio.

[LowerWolf]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Albies is 18 (19 in January) so he's still a few years away though.

If we had traded Simmons for some offense, I'd be OK with it. But it seems contradictory to me to trade defense for more pitching. We're overflowing with pitching now. I get that Newcomb instantly is the top-rated guy and that not everybody is going to pan out, but at some point we need to start addressing the positional areas.

I assume that we're going to try to package some pitching for a hitter this offseason.

[redsox4evur]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Youre the fourth person that said they really like Newcomb. I am going check out his bio.

I posted the one from MLB.com in the Hot Stove thread. But here it is again. Here's the scouting report:

Newcomb finished his college career as Hartford's career strikeouts leader with 243 whiffs. He also became the highest-drafted player in school history when the Angels selected him 15th overall in 2014. The only other player in school history to be drafted in the first 10 rounds is Jeff Bagwell, who was picked in the fourth round in 1989. Newcomb pitched across three levels, reaching Double-A in his first full season and threw well in the Futures Game. He was the key prospect sent to the Braves in the Andrelton Simmons trade.

Listed at 6-foot-5, 245 pounds, Newcomb is physically imposing on the mound. He generates easy velocity, consistently throwing his fastball in the low to mid 90s and touching 98 mph. His breaking ball has made strides in the last year, and his changeup gives him a third average-or-better pitch.

Newcomb has a bit more upside than a typical college pitcher after matriculating at a small, Northeastern school. His size and arm strength are uncommon for a left-hander, and he has a chance to become a frontline starter in time, though he'll need to refine his command to get there.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Albies is 18 (19 in January) so he's still a few years away though.

If we had traded Simmons for some offense, I'd be OK with it. But it seems contradictory to me to trade defense for more pitching. We're overflowing with pitching now. I get that Newcomb instantly is the top-rated guy and that not everybody is going to pan out, but at some point we need to start addressing the positional areas.

I assume that we're going to try to package some pitching for a hitter this offseason.

He's the surest looking "ace" of the group though. It's not like we got more depth or quantity here. This is quality.

As far as Albies, he's almost 19, which is very young. He played extremely well in A, and will probably open next year in high A or double A. It's not beyond the realm of possibility, he could be the SS by the all star break in 2017. Simmons only spent half a season in double A before getting called up, and Albies' numbers are very similar to Simmons'

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[decga]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I posted the one from MLB.com in the Hot Stove thread. But here it is again. Here's the scouting report:

Newcomb finished his college career as Hartford's career strikeouts leader with 243 whiffs. He also became the highest-drafted player in school history when the Angels selected him 15th overall in 2014. The only other player in school history to be drafted in the first 10 rounds is Jeff Bagwell, who was picked in the fourth round in 1989. Newcomb pitched across three levels, reaching Double-A in his first full season and threw well in the Futures Game. He was the key prospect sent to the Braves in the Andrelton Simmons trade.

Listed at 6-foot-5, 245 pounds, Newcomb is physically imposing on the mound. He generates easy velocity, consistently throwing his fastball in the low to mid 90s and touching 98 mph. His breaking ball has made strides in the last year, and his changeup gives him a third average-or-better pitch.

Newcomb has a bit more upside than a typical college pitcher after matriculating at a small, Northeastern school. His size and arm strength are uncommon for a left-hander, and he has a chance to become a frontline starter in time, though he'll need to refine his command to get there.

Thanks I checked it out myself. Its the same old, same old. He is a lefty. A proven SS, which is a valuable position, contract friendly player for an unproven pitcher. The way Freddie G uses them! No thanks.

[p_rushing]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Braves are hoping to have 5 #1s in the rotation come 2017. They can't win otherwise.

Simmons is great defensively, but his hitting isn't. Maybe it is coaching, maybe him. I would have liked getting more, but I guess they think they got enough.

All the pitchers will have to be great so they can trade them for position players.

I doubt I'll be going to a game next season and won't watch many games.

Who is next?

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[KSUowls]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

They weren't being stupid anymore and got what they thought was a more reasonable trade. Also there is a difference in trading with someone with your own division and someone in the other league.

It wasn't being stupid. It was a little high, but I think it's not far from where the bar should have been. Think of it in terms of this. At his current rate, Simmons is going to end up in Cooperstown with his name right next to Ozzie Smith. He's 26, he's inexpensive, he's under team control for many more years. That's the guy we just traded for the #37 prospect in America at a position we already have an abundance of. Yeah we can trade them for a bat later on, but when will that be and who? Don't tell me we go out and pay a premium for a guy who has already been in the league for 5 years.

Mostly, I just don't like the inconsistent trade strategy. It's one foot in and one foot out. Half the time they are trading established players for prospects the other half they are trading established players and prospects for veterans. Despite the darkness after trading guys like Kimbrel and Upton I could see the light at the end. Now, I feel like they just added a few miles to the tunnel.


I actually like Albies. His minor league stat lines are quite impressive, and I guess that's what made Simmons available. Get a freaking bat in here though, or at least get a proven young commodity. I love prospects and building for the long haul. This was essentially a 1 for 1 and the 1 was neither at a position of dire need (like so many others) nor has he ever thrown a pitch at the major league level.


Edited - I don't dislike Newcomb. I dislike the inconsistent strategy and losing a guy who is already a young and proven commodity for just 1 minor league pitcher.

[Sportsforever]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Spent some time tonight watching Newcomb throw...wow, he's impressive. I had seen him pitch in college, but he's improved his off speed stuff so much in a short amount of time since going pro. I also like his motion..,

I watched Ellis as well and while he looks like he could be solid, I worry about his delivery...he has the inverted 'w' delivery which often leads to TJS...lets hope that doesn't rear its ugly head.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Don't forget that we got Aybar. A 2.3 war player and a year removed from an all star season. You flip him in the summer, and you've got another prospect.

At some point, our pitching prospects get dealt. I think that's clear. We're building the surplus, and hopefully it will get used.

The #37 is also outdated. Even Law's may be. He could very well be top 15 or 20 when 2016 rankings come out.

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[redsox4evur]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Don't forget that we got Aybar. A 2.3 war player and a year removed from an all star season. You flip him in the summer, and you've got another prospect.

At some point, our pitching prospects get dealt. I think that's clear. We're building the surplus, and hopefully it will get used.

The #37 is also outdated. Even Law's may be. He could very well be top 15 or 20 when 2016 rankings come out.

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The #19 from MLB is at least after the draft but don't know the last time it was updated from then.

[KSUowls]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

I guess my overall point was that even if he's the #1 overall prospect, he's still just a prospect for a guy on pace to reach Cooperstown. Doesn't seem equal

I know we'll trade some of this pitching eventually, but I'm terrified of the idea that we trade 3 or 4 22 year old arms for 1 guy who is 28. It's conjecture, but I don't really have anything else to go on at this point. How often do young pitching prospects get traded for young position prospects? I don't know the answer, but I would be surprised if it's with any frequency.

If we can flip Aybar for a few minor league bats then I will be begrudgingly ok with it, but I don't think that will happen. It seems likely that they would just pencil him in as the every day short stop in 2016 since they have shown that they want to try and field a semi-competitive team while also building the farm.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: 2015 Atlanta Braves

Can we stop with the "future hall of famer" talk please. It's just not true. He tied for 58th in WAR this year. And his 4.0 WAR is up from the year before (102nd). He's a very good to great player, but calling him a future hall of famer is a GIANT stretch. He's not even an all-star right now. Statically, he was down to the 2nd best fielder in the league at his position, at best and doesn't hit.

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