Official Cincinnati Reds Thread

[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

If everything goes their way (which has a 0% chance of happening), I really think this team has a chance to be a contender in 2017, which is what they should be aiming for. BP's resurgence will hopefully let someone trade for him in the offseason. Dump him for salary. Trade Chapman for at least one good hitting prospect. The Reds have a ton of very good pitching. Iglesias has ace potential. So does Stephenson. Bailey is a borderline ace when healthy. That is a solid 3 man rotation there. Add in the other prospects like Cody Reed (who is dominating in double A), Amir Garrett, etc and they should be able get 2 more pitchers.
The farm system is rather bare hitting wise, but Winker is ready for the majors. Delay his clock for arbitration reasons until May, and let him get a year under his belt. Phil Ervin has issues but is a near 5 tool player. Put him in AAA next year to start and if he succeeds move him up. He could be a super utility guy playing all three positions or even take Hamilton's spot if he still can't hit. Regarding Hamilton, bring in someone that knows what the **** he's talking about to show Hamilton. I don't care who it is, as long as he can help him.

CF: Hamilton
1B: Votto
C: Mesoraco
RF: Bruce
3B: Frazier
LF: Winker
SS: Suarez
2B: Blandino/etc

is a very good lineup imo. It has question marks (can Mes actually recover & catch every day, is Suarez a flash in the pan, etc) but with that lineup they would still be good. Winker is like Votto in the fact he won't beat himself like so many guys do. They could have a solid bench as well with Barnhart/Cozart(?)/Ervin/Duvall, etc.

Lots of things have to go right (#FireJocketty), but I see no reason why they can't contend in 2 years, which is what they need to build for.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

If everything goes their way (which has a 0% chance of happening), I really think this team has a chance to be a contender in 2017, which is what they should be aiming for. BP's resurgence will hopefully let someone trade for him in the offseason. Dump him for salary. Trade Chapman for at least one good hitting prospect. The Reds have a ton of very good pitching. Iglesias has ace potential. So does Stephenson. Bailey is a borderline ace when healthy. That is a solid 3 man rotation there. Add in the other prospects like Cody Reed (who is dominating in double A), Amir Garrett, etc and they should be able get 2 more pitchers.
The farm system is rather bare hitting wise, but Winker is ready for the majors. Delay his clock for arbitration reasons until May, and let him get a year under his belt. Phil Ervin has issues but is a near 5 tool player. Put him in AAA next year to start and if he succeeds move him up. He could be a super utility guy playing all three positions or even take Hamilton's spot if he still can't hit. Regarding Hamilton, bring in someone that knows what the **** he's talking about to show Hamilton. I don't care who it is, as long as he can help him.

CF: Hamilton
1B: Votto
C: Mesoraco
RF: Bruce
3B: Frazier
LF: Winker
SS: Suarez
2B: Blandino/etc

is a very good lineup imo. It has question marks (can Mes actually recover & catch every day, is Suarez a flash in the pan, etc) but with that lineup they would still be good. Winker is like Votto in the fact he won't beat himself like so many guys do. They could have a solid bench as well with Barnhart/Cozart(?)/Ervin/Duvall, etc.

Lots of things have to go right (#FireJocketty), but I see no reason why they can't contend in 2 years, which is what they need to build for.

Some high hopes, for sure. I think trading Frazier now (winter) is the smart thing to do. Should have traded him after the all star game to get max value. In 2 years (2017), he will be in his last year of his contract. If nothing gets done then, and likely won't IMO, then it would have all been for waste.

You can't just up and trade BP though. He has 5/10 rights. If he would agree to a trade though, timing would be good.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Some high hopes, for sure. I think trading Frazier now (winter) is the smart thing to do. Should have traded him after the all star game to get max value. In 2 years (2017), he will be in his last year of his contract. If nothing gets done then, and likely won't IMO, then it would have all been for waste.

You can't just up and trade BP though. He has 5/10 rights. If he would agree to a trade though, timing would be good.

I actually think the Reds will try to sign Frazier to a long term deal over the winter, or they will attempt too anyway. I know he is struggling and has been since AS break, doesn't make me think any less of the talent he brings. He basically had to carry the team in the 1st half of the season, and also had to do a lot of things for the All Star game since he was the host, let alone playing and winning the derby as well as playing in the game, so I just think he is wore down, and why he has had a power outage.


Like you said Brandon has full no trade, so he would have to agree to any deal if they actually wanted to trade him, and Im not sure they want to trade him anyway, because from a pure standpoint of hitting average he is the best on the team outside of Votto that is. Plus he still plays GG defense at that. Now if a great deal cam about and he agreed to it, then obviously they would be crazy to not do it, but I highly doubt they are looking to dump BP based on money, Bruce is the guy they would love to get rid of, based on salary as well as his lack of consistent production.


Not much has been good to talk about this season other than Frazier winning the derby and hosting a great AS game, and Votto being back to being the best LH'ed hitter in baseball, but I do think we found our ss of the future. I know Price has said Cozart is the ss, but I don't believe that, I just think they don't want to come out and say it since Cozart is hurt, and for that matter Price very well wont be the manager next season anyway. While Cozart did improve offensively, his average had dropped to .258 before the injury, so it was falling back inline with his talent level, and if he had played the entire season, he probably wouldn't have been over .250.


Suarez definitely don't have the glove that Zach has but Id say he has a stronger arm and I do think his D has been constantly improving, so he should be a solid defensive ss when its sadi and done. I suppose if they cant find a LF to hit, then Suarez probably ends up there next season while Cozart remains at short. Wont surprise me if Winker and/or Waldrop isn't on the 25 man to start next season.




Personally I think this team can compete next season, if Mez and Homer are healthy and we stay healthy this isn't a bad team, problem is we just don't have much depth to overcome injuries like say the Cards can. Our young starters are going to have to continue to improve and the pen has to be fixed along with some luck staying healthy.

[PhantomPain]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

I actually think the Reds will try to sign Frazier to a long term deal over the winter, or they will attempt too anyway. I know he is struggling and has been since AS break, doesn't make me think any less of the talent he brings. He basically had to carry the team in the 1st half of the season, and also had to do a lot of things for the All Star game since he was the host, let alone playing and winning the derby as well as playing in the game, so I just think he is wore down, and why he has had a power outage.


Like you said Brandon has full no trade, so he would have to agree to any deal if they actually wanted to trade him, and Im not sure they want to trade him anyway, because from a pure standpoint of hitting average he is the best on the team outside of Votto that is. Plus he still plays GG defense at that. Now if a great deal cam about and he agreed to it, then obviously they would be crazy to not do it, but I highly doubt they are looking to dump BP based on money, Bruce is the guy they would love to get rid of, based on salary as well as his lack of consistent production.


Not much has been good to talk about this season other than Frazier winning the derby and hosting a great AS game, and Votto being back to being the best LH'ed hitter in baseball, but I do think we found our ss of the future. I know Price has said Cozart is the ss, but I don't believe that, I just think they don't want to come out and say it since Cozart is hurt, and for that matter Price very well wont be the manager next season anyway. While Cozart did improve offensively, his average had dropped to .258 before the injury, so it was falling back inline with his talent level, and if he had played the entire season, he probably wouldn't have been over .250.


Suarez definitely don't have the glove that Zach has but Id say he has a stronger arm and I do think his D has been constantly improving, so he should be a solid defensive ss when its sadi and done. I suppose if they cant find a LF to hit, then Suarez probably ends up there next season while Cozart remains at short. Wont surprise me if Winker and/or Waldrop isn't on the 25 man to start next season.




Personally I think this team can compete next season, if Mez and Homer are healthy and we stay healthy this isn't a bad team, problem is we just don't have much depth to overcome injuries like say the Cards can. Our young starters are going to have to continue to improve and the pen has to be fixed along with some luck staying healthy.

I agree that Frazier is talented and I like him quite a bit. But it is a little concerning that 2 home run derby's in a row are followed by 2 second half let downs in a row. Also, I get that the HR Derby can wear a player out, but for the whole second half of a season? Something doesn't add up to me. If they do sign him for a long term contract, then I hope he no longer does the HR Derby and finds a way to stay productive in the second half of the season.

I think BP, as good as he is defensively and showing his offense come back, is still someone to trade if you can. I personally think that he is part of the problem with the culture there. Young guys are learning its ok to not run out hits, watch home runs that hit the wall and joke around on the bases enough to get picked off.

And if they do trade Phillips, Cozart will likely play short and Suarez at second. Suarez may eventually be a good fielder, and I know he makes some plays that are outstanding, but his career so far has never shown him to be an outstanding fielder. I still like Cozart at SS for his defense and mediocre offense. But I do think Suarez has earned a right to play somewhere every day.

As for being competitive next year, still a lot of IF's and for me, I'm tired of the IF's. It has been that way for several years now. IF Votto can get back to healthy. IF Homer continues to improve. IF Bruce can get going. IF Mez can build on his solid year (which he didn't because of the injury). IF Cozart can not hit .220. IF IF IF. Tired of the IF's.

Going to take them actually doing it in order for me to believe this team can be competitive in the near future.

[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

I'd put Frazier, Bruce, BP and Chapman on the trading block this winter. Especially Chapman. Get a couple of solid bats back for him. See if a team would still give up a ton for Frazier. Get BP's contract off the books and use it for a good FA next year.

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[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Also, I'd give every chance in the world for Suarez to keep the SS job. Cozart is coming off a major knee injury and he's so reliant on his defense. That is scary. Suarez needs to walk more and get better defensively but he has improved there and continues to mash the ball. He'll be a very good 5/6 hitter next year for the Reds.

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[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Marty and others have been screaming for Joey to expand his strikezone and swing at more pitches. As we all know, Joey is putting up a second half at Ruthian levels. So, I guess Joey took their advice and is swinging more.

Heck no.

He is swinging at fewer pitches than ever in his career, both his chase% and szone% are down. But, he has his legs under him again and he can drive the ball. So Votto is just sitting dead red for his pitch when he gets ahead.

Yeah, he's still susceptible to hard stuff up and in, as has always been the case. But, pitcher's have to be precise, because just a few inches off, and it's either ball 3 or 4 or a pitch Votto has either driven into the gap or into the bleachers.

He's having a MVP season...but the team around him sucks so he won't win it. Last couple months, he's essentially been Barry Bonds (sans the roids). Nationally, no one has noticed, but then maybe that's how Joey likes it.

[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

At this point, Marty needs to go. Let the Reds throw him a retirement party and let him ride off into the sunset. It's despicable how he (and his ******* son) can bash Votto all they want and nothing happen.

[slickdtc]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Yeah Votto is playing Bonds ball the last two months. Never thought we'd see someone do that again. Even the best players in the league haven't even come close.

He's a special player that won't be appreciated until he's up for HOF consideration. Then they'll take a look at his numbers and say, how did we miss this guy?

Speaking of HOF, his final numbers may not be up there with some (especially from previous era), but he's one of those guys that you watch now and know he belongs.

I have the utmost respect and admiration for him. His dry humor gets me too.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds



The pitch that sent Joey into a tizzy tonight.

If Joey Votto says its a ball, it was a ball. Just let him call the game blue, he knows the zone better than you.

Not the first time Welke has run Votto either.

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[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

I agree that Frazier is talented and I like him quite a bit. But it is a little concerning that 2 home run derby's in a row are followed by 2 second half let downs in a row. Also, I get that the HR Derby can wear a player out, but for the whole second half of a season? Something doesn't add up to me. If they do sign him for a long term contract, then I hope he no longer does the HR Derby and finds a way to stay productive in the second half of the season.

I think BP, as good as he is defensively and showing his offense come back, is still someone to trade if you can. I personally think that he is part of the problem with the culture there. Young guys are learning its ok to not run out hits, watch home runs that hit the wall and joke around on the bases enough to get picked off.

And if they do trade Phillips, Cozart will likely play short and Suarez at second. Suarez may eventually be a good fielder, and I know he makes some plays that are outstanding, but his career so far has never shown him to be an outstanding fielder. I still like Cozart at SS for his defense and mediocre offense. But I do think Suarez has earned a right to play somewhere every day.

As for being competitive next year, still a lot of IF's and for me, I'm tired of the IF's. It has been that way for several years now. IF Votto can get back to healthy. IF Homer continues to improve. IF Bruce can get going. IF Mez can build on his solid year (which he didn't because of the injury). IF Cozart can not hit .220. IF IF IF. Tired of the IF's.

Going to take them actually doing it in order for me to believe this team can be competitive in the near future.

Now that Frazier has won it, and with the way his 2nd half has turned out Id say he is probably done with the derby, hoping so anyway.


Always seems to be a lot of IFs with this team, I suppose when your talented but short on depth its probably that way, hoping you stay healthy so you can compete. Plus going into next year not only will be still be short on depth at positions, but our rotation will be extremely young, and unless they spend some money to fix the bullpen, it will be up in the air as to how it will fair.


I do think next year will be better, surely we wont have another season of several injuries. You figure a lineup with Votto,BP,Frazier, and Mesoraco in it could be very dangerous especially if Billy gets things figured out. Billy adds so much when he gets on base, that I think if he had got things figured out this season our season would have been better.

[CaseIH]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

At this point, Marty needs to go. Let the Reds throw him a retirement party and let him ride off into the sunset. It's despicable how he (and his ******* son) can bash Votto all they want and nothing happen.

I grew up listening to Marty on the radio and always liked Marty cause he called it like it was, but since he has gotten older he has become very ignorant about the game of baseball, and annoying, not as much as his son though.


I do think its time for Marty to go, not sure why he feels the need to rip our best player at every chance he gets, but I have had enough it. Votto has taken a lot of crap the past couple seasons when he wasn't healthy from fans as well as our radio broadcaster and his son.


Just goes to show you how stupid some fans are as well as Marty and his idiot son, to think not making outs is a bad thing, and that you should swing more for the fences, and hit for a lower average. Thankfully Joey doesn't pay much attention to the idiots and fools that think that way.

[redsrule]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

Yeah Votto is playing Bonds ball the last two months. Never thought we'd see someone do that again. Even the best players in the league haven't even come close.

He's a special player that won't be appreciated until he's up for HOF consideration. Then they'll take a look at his numbers and say, how did we miss this guy?

Speaking of HOF, his final numbers may not be up there with some (especially from previous era), but he's one of those guys that you watch now and know he belongs.

I have the utmost respect and admiration for him. His dry humor gets me too.

He'll need to keep up his numbers at least 5/6 more years to be a hall of fame guy. I think he has a shot, because his game should age well due to his plate discipline.

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[slickdtc]

2015 Cincinnati Reds

The pitch that sent Joey into a tizzy tonight.

If Joey Votto says its a ball, it was a ball. Just let him call the game blue, he knows the zone better than you.

Not the first time Welke has run Votto either.

Sure enough the evidence backs up the claim.

Think he'll catch another game or two for making contact with the ump. Slight, but I think he did.

Obviously, losing your best player in a 2 run game isn't a good thing, but even in a **** season at least he's still got the fire. Could've just walked away and said it doesn't matter anyway. I've seen more leadership out of Votto this season then I've seen from any Reds player the last 15 years. Someone else needs to step up.

Votto should become an ump post-playing career. He IS the strike zone.

[jasontoddwhitt]

Re: 2015 Cincinnati Reds

http://redlegnation.com/2015/09/11/55838/

Paul Daugherty has authored a paper trail of criticism directed at Joey Votto that stretches farther than one of the slugger’s trademark opposite-field home runs.

Daugherty, a sportswriter for the Cincinnati Enquirer, has written columns that questioned Votto’s toughness, willingness to play through injury and then criticized Votto’s production when he did play injured. When Votto hasn’t played with enough passion for Daugherty’s taste, the writer described the Reds first baseman as disengaged. The Joey Votto Isn’t Paid to Walk nostalgia club? Daugherty is a dial-up-modem-carrying member.

Yet despite Paul Daugherty’s well-worn pattern, it was still a bit breathtaking to read his column yesterday criticizing Joey Votto’s angry outburst Wednesday night.

In a way, you have to feel sympathy for Daugherty and the Votto bashers who occupy broadcast booths. This baseball season has been kinda tough on them, what with the Reds first baseman having another one of the greatest years of all time. The anti-Votto choir has been stat-shamed into silence. But old habits die hard. Daugherty couldn’t resist taking Votto to task over the horrible sin of getting thrown out of a game – something that happens to the 2010 MVP about once a season.

Because of his long history of unfair criticism, presumption goes against Daugherty when it comes to the Reds’ first baseman. But before we dig into the substance of what Daugherty wrote, let’s look at what well-respected voices in the national baseball media had to say about the incident between Votto and umpire Bill Welke.

Peter Gammons tweeted: Should Welke get whatever suspension Votto gets?

Phil Rogers praised Votto for the passion he showed. Craig Calcaterra called Votto’s outburst “a thing of beauty” and “fantastic”. Calcaterra went on to belittle Welke’s comment about Votto spitting on him by calling the comment “bush league.” Perhaps the best discussion about the Votto-Welke feud was between Buster Olney and Keith Law on Olney’s ESPN podcast:

Buster Olney: “Joey Votto 90-95 percent of the time has a terrific relationship with umpires, a respectful relationship with umpires. [Votto asking for time] was like the kid who’s angry and is asking to walk in the corner for a little bit, [saying] I’m not happy about what took place can you just give me a little bit of space? And the answer was ‘no’, and I just think in that case, he could have given some latitude to Votto.”

Keith Law: He’s just asking for time. I don’t even see why that’s a big deal. And what could he have said? He wasn’t even talking to Welke at the time. This is the part that bothered me the most: he was so quick to eject Votto, which almost says to me, was he looking for a reason to eject Votto at that point. I mean at that point, that’s a situation where Welke should have been able to at least calm it down. And then obviously if Votto drops one of the forbidden words or something, then at that point, okay fine, you throw him out. But Votto didn’t seem or appear to be heated or angry until Welke threw him out, and then he lost his mind. And I kinda can’t really blame him at that point because it looks like Welke completely overstepped his bounds…it looked to me like he [Welke] massively overreacted to, as you said, a player with a good reputation for demeanor and the subject at hand – which in this case, is a blown ball/strike call.” [emphasis in original]

C Trent Rosecrans provides the full follow-up comment where Price defends Votto’s actions as warranted:

“I wasn’t at home plate, but I do know that Joey has a good rapport with the umpires. I think when he talks, he talks respectfully, and obviously something got sideways there between the two of them, and it went into a direction we had hoped it wouldn’t,” Price said. “I think Joey handled himself professionally up until the ejection and then was rightfully upset. How do you qualify what’s the right way to be upset? He was upset. Bill was upset. I was upset. There was a lot of upset people today. You know, and that’s – we felt it was warranted.”

Today, Price voiced a full defense of his first basement:

“From what I know, from talking with Joey and also from talking with Bill out on the field, (Votto) requested a timeout and was not granted it,” Price said. “That, to me, would warrant a response from Joey to get some help from his manager. Which he asked for and was ejected for. That’s what I know.”

Now, back to what Paul Daugherty wrote. He made two points: (1) That if anyone acted like Votto in a normal workplace environment, they would be fired, and (2) Joey Votto hurt his team by “removing himself at a critical point in the game.”

To set the record straight – and this should be obvious – Joey Votto didn’t remove himself from the game. The umpire did. Votto had turned to talk to his manager and was thrown out. Even Daugherty admits the ump blew it. Given that, how exactly is it fair to conclude that Votto “removed himself” from the game? Votto’s outburst didn’t hurt the Reds chances since he had already been thrown out of the game. Daugherty gets the timeline backwards and that completely undercuts his point.

Daugherty’s first point is just as off base, that Votto’s actions would result in anyone else being fired from their job. The cultural differences between a normal workplace and Joey Votto’s batter’s box are large. Many workplaces do have “shop talk” and other direct, loud and personal arguments.

But for Daugherty to write a column singling out Votto’s outburst for criticism displays jaw-dropping hypocrisy. Daugherty has a pattern of looking the other way, or endorsing, the behavior of other professional sports figures that wouldn’t be any more appropriate in the typical workplace than Votto’s tirade.

For example, in yesterday’s column, Daugherty scolded us all for giving “a pass” to coaches and managers who “generally behave like a spoon-banging 2-year-old.”

Yet Daugherty has done just that himself in the past. In fact, “pass” is an interesting word for Daugherty to choose, since that’s how he described his reaction (“easy for me to give him a pass”) to Bryan Price’s profanity-rich tirade in April.

Maybe we should forgive Paul Daugherty for not remembering what he wrote all of five months ago. But just five weeks ago, August 3, when the Reds had a bench clearing brawl with the Pirates, he celebrated certain Cincinnati players for showing their passion, especially one who got thrown out of the game. Daugherty praised the “pride and professionalism” of the players who were willing to go on the field and “punch it out.” Daugherty wrote:

“It’s nice to see players in a disappointing season that was recently lessened by two major trades at least give the impression that their spirit is still in the game.”

Daugherty singled out “that guy, right there, Number Nine. Marlon Byrd” for bravery in battle, even though Byrd got thrown out. What, no criticism toward Byrd for “removing himself” from the game? (It’s also worth nothing that Joey Votto himself was one of the leaders out on the field that day with Byrd. He was the other Reds player who was thrown out. Paul Daugherty, for some reason, couldn’t bring himself to include Votto in the praise, or even a mention.)

To review for those keeping score at home: When Bryan Price loses control and acts in a way that would get you fired at your job Paul Daugherty gives him a pass. When Marlon Byrd gets thrown out of a game for instigating a fight it’s evidence to Paul Daugherty that Byrd cares.

But when Joey Votto shows passion for playing – remember, he was mad about getting thrown out of the game – when Votto shows that he still cares about the outcome of a meaningless game, Paul Daugherty becomes the strict schoolmarm with a ruler. One who always has her eye on a particular student she doesn’t like.

In an otherwise brutal year for Reds fans, Votto has been a source of pride. Votto wants to play every inning of every game and plays hard when he’s out there. He’s not perfect, but what professional athlete – or any of the rest of us – is? Votto is the kind of role model we should hope for in our sports superstars. Baseball fans should be celebrating Joey Votto and his intensity.

And the nations’ great sportswriters are. Joe Posnanski compared Votto to Ted Williams. Richard Justice called Votto one of baseball’s greatest and most consistent performers. Jeff Sullivan says Votto is playing like an MVP.

But not Paul Daugherty. He cranks up his tired, sad Joey Votto outrage machine and spits out a load of nonsense. The hypocrisy in his writing lays bare his bias and lack of objectivity.

To borrow preachy judgment from a writer with whom Daugherty is quite familiar: That’s unacceptable.