Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

[CWood2]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Yup, things look promising right now. As we know, nobody is a sure thing and there could be trades, but you have to love how we've overhauled or minor league system in just a few years. Barring trades, I think Hanley, Pedroia, Papelbon, Hansen and possibly Lester will all have an opportunity to contribute on next years team.

If Manny Delcarmen continues to progress from his arm injury, he could truly be a power arm out of the pen in 2 years. For this year's team, I can't believe Marc Deschenes in Portland hasn't been called up yet. He's got a great sinker and command of all his pitches, closing and setting up whenever needed.

I'm actually bummed Pedroia got called up since I'm planning on going to a Sea Dogs game in July! He's getting called up this year IMO and could even hit high in the order and start at second by opening day next year. If Ellsbury and Hansen sign soon enough, I'm going to watch them with the Spinners if they're assigned to Lowell for the summer. That's how stoked I am about our system, I'm with you guys!

[Stu]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Nice to see guys like Olerud, Payton and Renteria contribute to a win.

Absolutely. Huge games for all three. Last night was one of those games where everybody chipped in. Embree getting out of that jam really kept them in the game. Foulke made me a little nervous in the 9th when Hafner crushed one foul but he made some good pitches and got the save.

[Stu]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

I'm actually bummed Pedroia got called up since I'm planning on going to a Sea Dogs game in July! He's getting called up this year IMO and could even hit high in the order and start at second by opening day next year.

Same here! I'm going to 2 Sea Dogs games in July. Hopefully the team is still intact. This is what Theo said about Pedroia:

''We had been planning for an All-Star break move [to Pawtucket], but with Edgar Renteria's wrist a little sore we wanted to see sooner rather than later how he'd adjust to a higher level,"

Sounds like they also were waiting for Hanley to come off the DL. Will Pedroia still be able to play in the AA All-Star game? It's being played in Portland this year so it would be a shame if he missed it.

[DuffysCliff]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

If Ellsbury and Hansen sign soon enough, I'm going to watch them with the Spinners if they're assigned to Lowell for the summer. That's how stoked I am about our system, I'm with you guys!

From what it sounds like, Ellsbury should be signed very soon, and could be in Wilmington by the end of the summer, which is what they did with David Murphy who is also an advanced college hitter. Hansen on the other hand probably won't sign for awhile, and even if he does sign before the minor league season is over, he may not pitch much or at all (depending on how many games are left, wouldn't want to burn an option year). I don't think he goes to Lowell to begin with either, maybe Wilmington.

Another guy they are hopefully able to sign is Pedro Alvarez, a HS third basemen. They offered him a predraft deal where they took him at #47 and gave him a 750,000 bonus, but he turned it down, so they took him in the 14th round. My gut feeling is that they won't be able sign him though as they are already spending a lot of money on this draft as it is. Heres Alvarez write up from Baseball America

The lefthanded-hitting Alvarez is one of the better hitters to come out of New York City since the Indians took Manny Ramirez with its first-round pick in 1991. He has beaten up weak pitching this spring, hitting .526-8-23 in 38 at-bats, forcing scouts to schedule their own batting practice sessions after games to get a truer reading on his hitting ability. He looked overmatched at last summers' East Coast Professional Baseball Showcase, but got himself in much better shape for this season, and it made a difference in all phases of his game, particularly his speed and mobility in the field. He’s also shown a better swing, with power potential that some scouts have graded up to 65-70 on the 20-80 scouting scale. Alvarez is not overly athletic and has a thick physique that resembles a young Carlos Baerga. A Vanderbilt recruit projected to go as high as the third round, he has attracted major league general managers to his games.

We need more power guys in our system, and if we are able to sign him and Jon Egan, both should help us out in that department.

I'm also pretty interested to see what Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden do. Unfortunately they will only pitch 1 or 2 innings at a time.

[CWood2]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Same here! I'm going to 2 Sea Dogs games in July. Hopefully the team is still intact. This is what Theo said about Pedroia:

''We had been planning for an All-Star break move [to Pawtucket], but with Edgar Renteria's wrist a little sore we wanted to see sooner rather than later how he'd adjust to a higher level,"

Sounds like they also were waiting for Hanley to come off the DL. Will Pedroia still be able to play in the AA All-Star game? It's being played in Portland this year so it would be a shame if he missed it.

Man, the AA All-Star game would be amazing to attend since most of the top prospects are at that level. How hard would it be to get tickets...with the smaller stadium factored in? That's something I need to look into.

Who's projected to be in that game from our Sea Dogs btw? I wonder if they have the vote standings somewhere...

[CWood2]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

From what it sounds like, Ellsbury should be signed very soon, and could be in Wilmington by the end of the summer, which is what they did with David Murphy who is also an advanced college hitter. Hansen on the other hand probably won't sign for awhile, and even if he does sign before the minor league season is over, he may not pitch much or at all (depending on how many games are left, wouldn't want to burn an option year). I don't think he goes to Lowell to begin with either, maybe Wilmington.

Another guy they are hopefully able to sign is Pedro Alvarez, a HS third basemen. They offered him a predraft deal where they took him at #47 and gave him a 750,000 bonus, but he turned it down, so they took him in the 14th round. My gut feeling is that they won't be able sign him though as they are already spending a lot of money on this draft as it is. Heres Alvarez write up from Baseball America



We need more power guys in our system, and if we are able to sign him and Jon Egan, both should help us out in that department.

I'm also pretty interested to see what Clay Buchholz and Michael Bowden do. Unfortunately they will only pitch 1 or 2 innings at a time.

Any comparison to Manny, who may have been the best high school hitter ever, is pretty impressive and makes me wanna sign this kid all the more.

As far as Buchholz and Bowden, it's pretty interesting how the Sox and A's took a bunch of high school arms this year, and fairly early in the draft. Did they put out a revised version of Moneyball without me knowing it?

[ehh]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Any comparison to Manny, who may have been the best high school hitter ever, is pretty impressive and makes me wanna sign this kid all the more.

As far as Buchholz and Bowden, it's pretty interesting how the Sox and A's took a bunch of high school arms this year, and fairly early in the draft. Did they put out a revised version of Moneyball without me knowing it?

Just curious, what kinda stats did Manny put up in HS?

[CWood2]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Just curious, what kinda stats did Manny put up in HS?

I say that mainly based on his reputation coming out of HS as the best NY hitter at that age. His power and approach was so advanced that it was easy to project him to the player he is now, even though he may not have panned out. Not sure about the numbers, but I know he was a beast!

[Stu]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Man, the AA All-Star game would be amazing to attend since most of the top prospects are at that level. How hard would it be to get tickets...with the smaller stadium factored in? That's something I need to look into.

Who's projected to be in that game from our Sea Dogs btw? I wonder if they have the vote standings somewhere...

I doubt there are tickets available. It's hard enough to get regular season Sea Dogs tickets these days.

I'm not sure who will be involved for the Sea Dogs. I think it's not all of AA, just the EL so they should have a few guys there. I would think Pedroia was a lock, and West, Moss, Papelbon, Lester and Deschenes probably have a shot.

The IL all-stars were announced so I'd imagine we'll find out soon. Chip Ambres was the only player from Pawtucket to make the team.

[Stu]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Did they put out a revised version of Moneyball without me knowing it?

Moneyball isn't really about college vs high school, but more about finding what is undervalued and stocking up on it. When it was written, college players were undervalued but that isn't the case now. With so many other teams going after College players, it made more sense to go with a "best available" approach.

[Stu]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Just curious, what kinda stats did Manny put up in HS?

This is all I could find on Manny's HS career, from his mlb.com bio:

"Manny graduated from George Washington High School in the Bronx...was named All-City in 1989, 1990 and 1991 and was the New York City Public Schools High School Player of the Year in 1991, when he batted .615 with 14 homers in 22 games...was inducted into the New York City Public Schools Athletic Hall of Fame in October of 1999"

[CWood2]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Moneyball isn't really about college vs high school, but more about finding what is undervalued and stocking up on it. When it was written, college players were undervalued but that isn't the case now. With so many other teams going after College players, it made more sense to go with a "best available" approach.

Yeah I think teams are realizing that unless you're presented with a Justin Upton like player, it's easier to project a more advanced college hitter than it is a player from highschool. As far as pitchers, your pitches, your command and your mechanics can already make a pretty good case for who you can become. Good way of thinking about it though; as more teams come around and delve into the college players, it leaves high school players of less risk to the "moneyballers." I was still kind of surprised by the A's draft this year though based on their last few.

[Stu]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Yeah I think teams are realizing that unless you're presented with a Justin Upton like player, it's easier to project a more advanced college hitter than it is a player from highschool. As far as pitchers, your pitches, your command and your mechanics can already make a pretty good case for who you can become. Good way of thinking about it though; as more teams come around and delve into the college players, it leaves high school players of less risk to the "moneyballers." I was still kind of surprised by the A's draft this year though based on their last few.

Another aspect of the HS vs College argument is money. You end up having to pay HS players more money before they reach the majors in comparison to college players. Guys like Dustin Pedroia and Craig Hansen are a perfect example. Sure, you're paying them more money to start but both could be in MLB within 2 years of being drafted. Compare that to somebody like Hanley Ramirez who has been in the Sox system for almost 5 years. Other teams have started to adopt this, which I think, forced teams like the Red Sox and A's to change their approach.

[DuffysCliff]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Another aspect of the HS vs College argument is money. You end up having to pay HS players more money before they reach the majors in comparison to college players. Guys like Dustin Pedroia and Craig Hansen are a perfect example. Sure, you're paying them more money to start but both could be in MLB within 2 years of being drafted. Compare that to somebody like Hanley Ramirez who has been in the Sox system for almost 5 years. Other teams have started to adopt this, which I think, forced teams like the Red Sox and A's to change their approach.

Well, the Red Sox signed Hanley Ramirez as a 16 year old out of the Domincan for about 30,000, he wasn't a big bonus guy like Luis Soto is currently. It's been a pretty good deal so far.

The other side of paying high school players more money is the theory that if they get up there at 21, when they are 24 they will really start to come into their own, and stay at that level for longer than a college player who came up at age 23 would. Or at least thats the theory.

One guy who I think you are missing when it comes to good prospects is Mikey Hall, a HSer we drafted a couple years agp. He put up good numbers last year as a 19 year old in mid-A after a slow start, and after another slow start, he really came around again this year until he broke a finger I believe and has been out for almost a month. He shows the best power in the system, walks a lot, but strikes out a lot also. Once he comes back from his injury, we'll see how he does, but I have high hopes for him.

[Stu]

Re: Official Boston Red Sox 2005 Thread

Well, the Red Sox signed Hanley Ramirez as a 16 year old out of the Domincan for about 30,000, he wasn't a big bonus guy like Luis Soto is currently. It's been a pretty good deal so far.

Yah, Hanley was a bad example. I couldn't really think of any of our top prospects that were HS'ers.