NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

[DukeBlue213]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

as i said in the impression thread, this is really the only thing i see that can be exploited. all they really need to do is make the cpu back-peddle and use the quick shuffle in that situation, in transition, and when set to 'gap' so your team mates arent taken advantage of.

Thanks for the reply.

[2_headedmonster]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

When you sprint down court into a set defense, the AI help defense needs to recognize that and wall off the ball handler. Any starting PG can get a full head of steam and penetrate deep into the paint, but they wouldn't be able to pull up on balance, finish at the rim or dish it off, because it'd be a mess below the FT line.

Tony Parker and Rondo use this tactic for the one man fastbreak. They push it against the backpedaling D and if there is no high percentage opportunity they retreat and set it up. Sometimes this would result in the "secondary break" where the trailing players find opportunities with the D scrambling to react.

So the issue is not fully sprinting PGs getting past their man. It's the fact that the AI isn't reacting on ball or with help, the latter of which will really affect online play. Both affect offline play.

If you are able to play your man to his weak side, this tactic should wear out the starting PG and not produce enough buckets to be worth it, but for that to happen the AI help needs to react. If you're playing off ball, the AI guarding the ball handler needs to pick a side and attempt to ride the dribbler into help and be ready to contest or trap on the retreat.

I agree to an extent because there are situations where it would make sense for the defender to get beat. But with as much room as there was, and how telegraphed the attack was (in the vid), any defender with a brain would have back-peddled and made a hesitation of some sort needed to get by them.

[SavoyPrime]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

Even with him playing on pro/default, that is still disturbing that it's happening in the first place.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

See, I don't think the problem is too much realism. It's more a case of a lack of realism on one side or the other.

I think in THIS case it's lack of realism.

What I meant by the realism argument was just over the last 3 years of on ball defense. I liked the unrealistic 2k11 defense more than any other was my point but it got a little off topic is all...

[thunderbird86]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

as i said on page 2, yes i can.

Yet you failed up on the first attempt... and had to cross half court to try to do it again...

[mrprice33]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

Can the defender jump away from the ball hand with the right stick to combat this?

[2_headedmonster]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

Yet you failed up on the first attempt... and had to cross half court to try to do it again...

as i said, i simply didnt have enough momentum. I could have easily posted a 3 min vid doing it back to back, but theres no need. People will have the game in their hands soon enough.

but discredit it if you choose. you arent the one i want to convince. i want to convince a developer, someone who can do something about it so others dont get cheesed to death with it.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

Even with him playing on pro/default, that is still disturbing that it's happening in the first place.

People should be able to have a fun, silly experience on lower/arcade difficulties. Simheads are all smart enough to set the difficulty for the more hardcore experience. There's no reason to have all difficulties honor the ratings/tendencies/settings in the same way(not sure if that's even possible).

Superstar/SIM is the true basketball experience and we're not seeing the proper defensive response on that setting. That's the issue. No one who wants to be SIM should care about what happens on difficulties specifically said not to give a SIM experience.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

I think in THIS case it's lack of realism.

What I meant by the realism argument was just over the last 3 years of on ball defense. I liked the unrealistic 2k11 defense more than any other was my point but it got a little off topic is all...

I get ya. I prefer the onball defense to move in the direction it's going obeying realism and actual NBA rules and officiating, but I do agree that 2K11 had what worked pretty well as a balanced game even though though it was basically a foul every possession. Kind of worked for the classic games though.

[2_headedmonster]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

I get ya. I prefer the onball defense to move in the direction it's going obeying realism and actual NBA rules and officiating, but I do agree that 2K11 had what worked pretty well as a balanced game even though though it was basically a foul every possession. Kind of worked for the classic games though.

i agree, but the closer you get to realism, the more the details matter. we need them details.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

you need to read that again....

I said "as i tried all kinds of defensive settings" meaning i was trying to see if there was an adjustment that could be made to make the cpu play this properly.

it obviously failed.

then i said, "manually i could contain it, but in transition there were too many things and players to manage to shut this tactic down".

And the crossover isnt hard, even at that speed, but the fact that the defender does not give ground is just plain stupid.

You completely missed the point of my question. I am not talking about the CPU. I'm talking about the user controlled defender. But I have my answer. The user has what he needs to defend. Should not be an issue online.

The rest, we already agree about the CPU defender.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

let me be clear defense can be played in 2k15. On ball you have the tools to make a person work for their buckets, theres just a few situations where your teammates dont use them.

And with that, the people whining about online play can relax.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

I get ya. I prefer the onball defense to move in the direction it's going obeying realism and actual NBA rules and officiating, but I do agree that 2K11 had what worked pretty well as a balanced game even though though it was basically a foul every possession. Kind of worked for the classic games though.

Agreed, it sounds great but I don't think they have even come close to finding the balance here. This year could be different though so this is all past experiences IMO. I'd rather have more responsiveness and ability to stay in front consistently with defenders I should be able to stay in front with. I'm all for realism but it needs to be balanced correctly. I could live with lack of realism for proper game balance that gives me a fun experience.

I think in past few years it's near impossible to stay in front of a really good player online. I consider myself a good 2k player where I'm usually around 70% winning percentages in online leagues and this is with my horrible defense. I can adjust and outwit and outthink opponents but no thanks to on ball defense.

I just think sometimes to much realism is bad for video games UNLESS you nail it with balance which in basketball games seems hard to do. It always seems like offense is overpowered and the defense is automatically at a disadvantage. Maybe over power defense on ball slightly as far as sipped, recovery, agility, lateral quickness? But the thing is I don't want that to be the case off ball and see magical recoveries on close outs and recoveries getting around down screens, etc. I don't know...

But who knows maybe they nailed it this year? I'll need to feel it to see for sure.

[Boilerbuzz]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

When you sprint down court into a set defense, the AI help defense needs to recognize that and wall off the ball handler. Any starting PG can get a full head of steam and penetrate deep into the paint, but they wouldn't be able to pull up on balance, finish at the rim or dish it off, because it'd be a mess below the FT line.

Tony Parker and Rondo use this tactic for the one man fastbreak. They push it against the backpedaling D and if there is no high percentage opportunity they retreat and set it up. Sometimes this would result in the "secondary break" where the trailing players find opportunities with the D scrambling to react.

So the issue is not fully sprinting PGs getting past their man. It's the fact that the AI isn't reacting on ball or with help, the latter of which will really affect online play. Both affect offline play.

If you are able to play your man to his weak side, this tactic should wear out the starting PG and not produce enough buckets to be worth it, but for that to happen the AI help needs to react. If you're playing off ball, the AI guarding the ball handler needs to pick a side and attempt to ride the dribbler into help and be ready to contest or trap on the retreat.

Great post. Too bad the game doesn't respect the concept of "weak side"...

[2_headedmonster]

Re: NBA 2K15 Gameplay...a bit worrisome

Can the defender jump away from the ball hand with the right stick to combat this?

you could. they have these new mini shuffles with the right stick. but thats a big gamble at that distance, you could just find yourself moving out of the way. as in real life it would probably be better to just give ground.