So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

[luijo]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

You got a good point, but Blake made most of his shots, I believe he ended the game 9-11. My problem was stopping those guys. I kinda liked the Nene vs Blake duel, but it felt awkward, specially after he was pretty useless in offense through the first 3 quarters. Not saying that doesn't happen in the NBA.

As for Rivers over dribbling, that was also another little duel against Wall, obviously, he choosed the wrong opponent. He made a good play against Wall in the 3rd, and drew a good foul early in the 4th, you can see what happened next.

I like to add some drama in my games, just to make them more interesting. Hope we can see some trash talking on future games.

By the way, nice job taking constructive criticism. I look forward to seeing your video tonight

That's the point of posting in a forum, I believe we all have a valid opinion, there's no point on sharing my experiences if I'm not willing to accept other people criticism.

[IUxHOOSIERS]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Trying to troll these guys isn't really helping anything. After recording and rewatching my games, I'm starting to see what they're talking about on SS/HOF.

The rhythm factor on these levels are unbalanced. Players seem to get hot/cold at the drop of a dime for no real reason at all. Maybe its the badges causing this but blowing out a team on these levels is pretty rare and that may be the cause. I think thats what us guys who play online ranked are seeing - badges are taking over just because they're there and not because the user did something to make them kick in.

There needs to be a system in place to balance out the hot/cold streaks because right now it favors the AI and I say that because on the higher levels, the AI is pretty much making every right decision no matter what player is on the floor.

Combine hot/cold streaks with player badges and you have an AI that seems to get unrealistic. Then you combine that with adjustments the AI made (but your AI should've countered IF you have it on auto, right?) and I can start to see where the 'comeback code' feeling comes from.

So for the comeback code crowd, yes, I now see what you guys are talking about. For those who don't believe them, attempt to see it from their angle instead of just trolling them. Hopefully I have some time this week once work slows down so I can show video evidence of what I'm talking about. The thought of 'comeback code' actually has some legs with me.

Thank you for looking at it from our point of view like you mentioned.

Look here's the deal, I play 2k strictly online(for money as well), and I can't tell you how many times where I have felt like I was 10x better than my opponent, only to barely win or lose the game off some BS.

If the comeback code (which I strongly believe in) comes from a player from the trailing team getting hot, then why have I rarely seen a player get hot from the team that is up by 8 or 10? It is really hard to explain what exactly happens during a 2k generated comeback to those who casually play the game. If I had plenty of time on my hand, I would definitely test out something like the shooting percentages when mildly contested while up 10 versus when down 10, using the same players. But the thing like I said is that there is so much that goes on that it's hard to test one thing.

I play 2k every day, and all of us that believe in the comeback code know exactly what we are all talking about and we can relate. If a comeback happens because of some guy getting hot, fine. But I should be seeing the same thing happen just as much to the team that is up by 10, but unfortunately i don't. Balance out the hot/cold streaks at least.

Probably 95% of the time when I play I am better than my opponent, and it reflects at the start of the game when I usually have an early lead when there's no momentum in the game. But once I get a 13-4 lead or even 9-2 lead, I know for a fact something is going to immediately go my opponent's way. Fake a** Kyrie is going to make an unbelievable contested 3 but I know if I shot the same three pointer when up by 9 the chances of the shot going in decrease DRAMATICALLY.

And to those that are saying, "what you did in the 1st half isn't going to work in the 2nd half." That is true, but the thing is that my opponent most of the time isn't making any changes either! He still plays the same way, shooting the same types of shots and playing the same defense.

Those of us that have played this game constantly online know what's really going on. To those who don't believe in the comeback code, I'm sorry that it's tough for us to explain what really happens when nothing goes our way. I watch the NBA constantly as well, got League Pass and everything and I understand and believe the whole "NBA is a game of runs" thing and that "no lead is safe."

2k14 was awful as well when it came to momentum shifts (and it might be worse than this year).

[Cowboyfan_19]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

I really don't know why there's such a big debate over this situation. To me, the comeback engine has existed for AT LEAST 2-3 years.

If you're just flat out better than your opponent online, then you should win 98% of the time. While I understand that adjustments are made to help start a comeback in real life, this just isn't the case in 2k. Even if online users have close to no knowledge as to how an actual basketball game is supposed to be played, The majority of fools online will continue to spam with a team like the Warriors.

The reason I notice this comeback nonsense so frequently is because I'm always the one up 10 pts at a point in the game because I know WTH I'm doing on offense and Defense where as my opponent probably does not. Now if you wanna say that I lose a game or two out of a hundred due to the opponent playing smarter and making the proper adjustments, then fine, but when this crap is happening over half the time and the opponent changes nothing and I CHANGE NOTHING, then why is it that they get miracle shot boost %s, Foul boost %s to the FT line, and my bad luck liklieness increases dramatically (player won't catch the ball in traffic.....EVER, player will miss 3 inches from rim, player will miss anything not a perfect release, etc.)

Again, I'm shocked that this is still being debated, but yes the rubber-band A.I is real and helps awful users stay close.

[weezy683]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

I've played in an online league for going on 4 years. Same people each year win, and each year lose when you look at records end of season. Occasionally just like irl anyone can beat anyone, but over the course of a season the best always prevail.

[Stylez80Nine]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

i mean basketball is a game of runs and they usually happen in the 3rd

[Shady Mike]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

[Boilerbuzz]

So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Again, I'm shocked that this is still being debated, but yes the rubber-band A.I is real and helps awful users stay close.

I'm shocked that people still debate the existence of the Loch Ness Monster. It's just as real as the rubber-band AI. I hear you man. I mean, how else are those pitiful foods able to hang with such a godlike player such as you? Must be rubber-band AI.

Talk to the Bucks and the Clippers.

[Scofield]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Watching the back and forth in this thread is great example of why it can be so hard to troubleshoot issues (I work in IT and see this all the time). Poorly communicated problems combined with the subsequent frustration and backlash from taking things too literally kills your chance at getting to the heart of the problem. This issue was best discussed at the tail end of the last generation. We were able to get right next to what was really happening and discuss it without the distractions I've seen in this thread.

First things first, "comeback code" does not exist in this game. Mike Wang has been clear on this point. The phrase has since become a euphemism for describing a type of behavior. Going forward we need to stop taking this phrase at face value when someone uses it. What they're really talking about is how the game handles momentum via hot and cold streaks on higher difficulties. If we start the conversation there it'll be quite a bit more profitable for us.

This thread had great back and forth:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...gic-nba-4.html

These two posts are a snap shot of what people had issue with in PvP situations:

I think the debate here is how much the user's input influences the outcome on the floor. I'm not sure any sensible person here has an issue with a bad shot going in or a good shot missing. It seems the crux of the issue may have to do with how frequently these outcomes occur.

I've stayed away from most of the conspiracy threads regarding rubber band logic but I must admit there's been a fair number of times over the past few years where I've felt something a little beyond my control was occurring on the virtual hardwood over certain stretches. I know slumps happen, but there's been times where I've wondered if the game was making my slumps happen, whether that be through a rubberband system, fluctuating hot/cold streaks, or otherwise.

For instance, in contrast to earlier 2K's, the last few iterations had me building large leads early with great play against overmatched foes, only to learn there was a great chance my lead would dwindle whether I kept my level of play up or not.

So with that said, if something beyond gamer control is affecting the outcome, I think there's a question of how much is too much. At what point would the gamer feel as though winning isn't completely up to their offensive and defensive skills, but whether the the cold streak that arbitrarily ran through their team came at the wrong time?

Again though, I'm not really someone who strongly believe there's something in 2K's coding that more readily allows for a losing team to make a significant run whether they do or do not begin playing better, but it wouldn't be the craziest thing if I heard it were so.

It's basically a discussion of "arbitrary vs. earned". The real life Pistons were awful last year. If they fell down by 20 early on against an opponent, they weren't going to climb out of that hole simply because "NBA teams make a run". They'd have had to begin converting and defending, which they were pretty terrible at, so the big comebacks rarely occurred. I think some are saying in 2K it seems a little too common and easy for terrible teams to go on runs they didn't earn, as if there's a built-in "ebb and flow" influencing matters.

There's no current way for the game to decipher between cheese and good basketball when it comes to made baskets. They are all the same, so a cheeser can get get the game to reward him the exact way it will a sim player when it comes to hot streaks. All he has to do is score.

So if say you've got an 8 point lead and a guy manages to get a few scores in a row through "gaming" the game, suddenly he's got access to all the boosts the game offers and you're left to deal with the fallout.

The following thread is pure gold. JasonWillams55 breaks down another variable in how the game functions on the higher levels. Namely (at least in the last gen we've yet to get confirmation for the current gen but the tell tale signs are there) that the CPU controled players get ratings boosts as the difficulty level goes up. So essentially you're not even playing against true to life representations of NBA players once you get to the highest level:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...fficients.html

Snapshot:

BIG side note/tangent: Difficulty level (Pro, All Star, SS, HoF) rating changes can be seen too in the sub menu as well. Meaning, it shows how much the CPU is boosted when you change off of Pro level.

Test: Scrimmage mode (no fatigue).

Pro level. Tip off, pause. Check ratings, no deviation (no arrows either direction). Go to controller, switch teams, check ratings, again no deviation. Note Jermaine Oneals standing dunk rating = 62.

Change difficulty to All Star, start scrimmage for 2 seconds. Pause game, switch off of Phoenix to OKC. Start game, pause. Switch back to PHO, check sub menu. Note JO standing dunk rating (green arrow now) = 67. Switch off PHO, change diff to Superstar. Start scrimmage for a sec. Pause, switch back to PHO. Check sub menu, JO standing dunk now a 70. HoF = 72.

So with that here are the results from that test.
Jermaine Oneal default 2k standing dunk rating = 62
Pro level (CPU) = 62
AS level (CPU) = 67
SS (CPU) = 70
HoF (CPU) = 72

So without a shadow of a doubt, the CPU is boosted on any other level than Pro.

With that, here are the boosts the CPU gets:

Standing Dunk rating
Pro = -2
AS = +5
SS = +7
HoF = +10

Block Rating (JO again) default rating 80, note this boost is only for CPU, HUM does not get it.
Pro = 78
AS = 85
SS = 88
HoF = 92

So we can see that indeed, it does make the game more difficult only because its increasing the CPU player ratings tremendously. Therefore making the game worse in my opinion, as it makes alot of the players have the same ratings, due to 99 being the top and 35 being the low.

Once again, as far a I know we don't have the same type of definite proof that the current gen behaves the same way in terms of how it handles ratings boosts. However, the game does seem to behave in much the same manner. So then, what appears to be happening is a combination of variables stacking to produce outcomes. A kind of heavy-handed approach to replicating runs from real NBA games. For example, a run might start because of a known bug causing a turnover or allowing someone to score. Some of this is doubtlessly unintended and the devs do not currently have fixes for the root causes. AI is difficult to say the least but I think the exchange between JWill and AlRob here would be a good starting point for thinking about how to approach it:

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...a-2k13-15.html


With all this being said. It is definitely possible to improve your stick skills and BB IQ to point where you can overcome these problems more often than not. It does take quite a bit of time but as Sam Pham and other have shown it can be done. Conversely, we do each other a disservice when we act as if these issues don't matter or are non-existent. Let's just be honest about what we see and give each other help when we can.

[Shady Mike]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Im not even going to start breaking this bull**** programming down

game play and momentum is ridiculous period

ever played a bum wiyh no skill who picks the cavs ?
Cpu does evrything for him and everything against you

im done with 2k since january game looks good but the gamrplay gets worse every year

ridiculous how 2k glamourizes this crap and people backin it up..
You know somethings wrong wenn u can predict the oucome of the game

im done with 2k and oh yeah no online leagues next year ? Im completely done for ever .bet on that

Hey people hated Michael Jordan when he was playing too lol. This is the greatest sports simulation of our generation and I feel bad for the people who don't take the time to set up an enjoyable experience.

[tyberious4now]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

I agree with you shady...I play with the Suns and I get my fair share of wins/losses..The bottom line is you have to use all of your resources to win in this game that's what I love about this game...

All so some teams are just flat out better than others and I can accept that..it makes it a challenge for me...

[quitdabull]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Im not even going to start breaking this bull**** programming down

game play and momentum is ridiculous period

ever played a bum wiyh no skill who picks the cavs ?
Cpu does evrything for him and everything against you

im done with 2k since january game looks good but the gamrplay gets worse every year

ridiculous how 2k glamourizes this crap and people backin it up..
You know somethings wrong wenn u can predict the oucome of the game

im done with 2k and oh yeah no online leagues next year ? Im completely done for ever .bet on that

this is the bottom line . Its like the better player you are the harder it is for you to win ... Open shots clanking that you worked hard for while your opponent drills 3 after 3 in your face . If its a brick forget about boards and there u go anotherr 3 in the bucket.

Its like the game reads that 1 user needs help so it lets them wreck havoc on rookie while you are battling a hall of fame cpu assisted bum that shoots 40 threes a game with no regrets

Just lost to a dude that made 11 3 pointers with chris paul...

[Shady Mike]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

this is the bottom line . Its like the better player you are the harder it is for you to win ... Open shots clanking that you worked hard for while your opponent drills 3 after 3 in your face . If its a brick forget about boards and there u go anotherr 3 in the bucket.

Its like the game reads that 1 user needs help so it lets them wreck havoc on rookie while you are battling a hall of fame cpu assisted bum that shoots 40 threes a game with no regrets

Just lost to a dude that made 11 3 pointers with chris paul...

Or maybe people just aren't as good as they think they are...

[zrohman]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Or maybe people just aren't as good as they think they are...

Exactly. If you were playing good d on Chris Paul those 11 shots I'm sure he wouldn't have made any of those.

[quitdabull]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Bruh i play on ball D...

let me keep this short . I just made a 3 with Pondexter a shot i usually dont take well contested the meter was red but The shot was money

[Shady Mike]

Re: So how long will 2K continue to deny 3rd quarter momentum shifts?

Bruh i play on ball D...

let me keep this short . I just made a 3 with Pondexter a shot i usually dont take well contested the meter was red but The shot was money

That's great.

But when you come into a thread and tell us that you let Chris Paul hit 11 3's in a game and then try and blame the momentum of the game...well you should know how that looks.

Your skill is going to be the first thing in question.