The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

[33JAF]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Great video. I'm seeing all these things on a consistent basis. I'm going to have to shelve this game until the first patch drop. Its a shame because I had very high hopes for this game.

I don't think I've ever used the teem "broken" on this site. Unfortunately, until these defensive AI issue are fixed, if they can be fixed, the game is borderline unplayable against the CPU

I feel the same way. I can't play it at all. I also agree about the term "broken" and hate to use it, but it's damn near "broken", and as far as I'm concerned, it's unplayable in it's current state for anyone who understands basketball.

Still waiting on a dev to chime in...

Where you at, OG?

[psydefx]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I was going to capture plays from a whole game, but I think one quarter will suffice. Again, this is CPUvCPU on default superstar with the 2k roster.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lik5Bm88yWo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Here we go again. Defenders getting stuck on other players and defenders helping when not needed. If you need to see more, just play the game and watch the replays. These things are happening at a very high rate. This was all recorded from one quarter of gameplay.

i really don't understand how fundamental things like these are still a problem after all of the complaints we served up last year. the new stuff is great, but it's really all pointless if we can't have a fundamental game of basketball. this really needs to be 2k's #1 priority right now.

[apollooff320]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I didn't think defense could be worst then last years but some how 2K did. This game has is straight beta. I'm seeing blocks not even getting counted into my players stats. I sitting here right now watching 2 replays of Towns blocking Jrue Holiday. I'm looking at his stats at end of game and he has 0 damn blks.

[33JAF]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

i really don't understand how fundamental things like these are still a problem after all of the complaints we served up last year. the new stuff is great, but it's really all pointless if we can't have a fundamental game of basketball. this really needs to be 2k's #1 priority right now.

I tweeted some of this stuff to Da_Czar last year and asked him "how you can call this sim with these fundamental problems", and he replied "I'll call it what I want to call it". I mean NO disrespect to DaCzar, but how are they missing this? I would love an explanation.

[Dione2014]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I was going to capture plays from a whole game, but I think one quarter will suffice. Again, this is CPUvCPU on default superstar with the 2k roster.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/lik5Bm88yWo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

Here we go again. Defenders getting stuck on other players and defenders helping when not needed. If you need to see more, just play the game and watch the replays. These things are happening at a very high rate. This was all recorded from one quarter of gameplay.

I think a lot of these issues has a lot to do with the movement system in this game. You barely have control over players. You take a step and it feels like you took 6. You can see that's what the cpu struggling with also. Just the way Shumpert at 2:38 slides out out of position, I'll be honest and say that exact instance happens to me as a user quite often because of lack of control.

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I think a lot of these issues has a lot to do with the movement system in this game. You barely have control over players. You take a step and it feels like you took 6. You can see that's what the cpu struggling with also. Just the way Shumpert at 2:38 slides out out of position, I'll be honest and say that exact instance happens to me as a user quite often because of lack of control.

I mention that in an earlier post in this thread, and I've said it for years. Animations need to be scaled way back. Doing a few size ups shouldn't take you from the 3 point line to around the top of the key. Player movement really needs to be tightened up. I still feel like I'm on roller skates, or I'm kinda herky jerky not sure where I'll end up. Sometimes though, everything feels right. I feel glued to the floor and precise, and it feels awesome!

I think this is hugely relevant to the topic of realistic on ball and team defense because if player movement on both sides of the ball is way toned down (which I think can be done because you do see flashes of it quite regularly) then we'll see much more precise and less exaggerated results.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I mention that in an earlier post in this thread, and I've said it for years. Animations need to be scaled way back. Doing a few size ups shouldn't take you from the 3 point line to around the top of the key. Player movement really needs to be tightened up. I still feel like I'm on roller skates, or I'm kinda herky jerky not sure where I'll end up. Sometimes though, everything feels right. I feel glued to the floor and precise, and it feels awesome!

I think this is hugely relevant to the topic of realistic on ball and team defense because if player movement on both sides of the ball is way toned down (which I think can be done because you do see flashes of it quite regularly) then we'll see much more precise and less exaggerated results.

Didn't Prelude seem better on this or is it me?

[jayman504]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Man going through this is painful. My defence does a better job of stopping me (via bumping and collisions) then my competition! Combine that with the 5 second turn around animation, renders playing defence almost hopeless.

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Didn't Prelude seem better on this or is it me?

To be honest I can't really say. I played it, but barely at all. I did notice bumping right away and I pretty much stopped after one game. Bumping (the 2K variety) is just something that I struggle with, and it makes me almost instantly turn the game off or go on a slider mission and because I couldn't change sliders I chose to not play. I think a lot of guys say that it was less of an issue though.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Man going through this is painful. My defence does a better job of stopping me (via bumping and collisions) then my competition! Combine that with the 5 second turn around animation, renders playing defence almost hopeless.

I would like to sit down with the council at 2k and give a dissertation on how and why they need to get rid of the auto turns at half court, at the three point line, and the force field turn on the baseline.

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I would like to sit down with the council at 2k and give a dissertation on how and why they need to get rid of the auto turns at half court, at the three point line, and the force field turn on the baseline.

What are the 'auto turns'?

[BegBy]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I had an opportunity to play 3 whole games today on the Xbone (I don't own one simply because I am an MLB The Show addict) for the first time. I can say with absolute certainty that player movement/control and overall pace or maybe even speed of the game is definitely a bit neutered. In a good way.

I tried this experiment last year with 2K16 with my PS4 copy and a copy from Steam for my PC. The PC version was a lot better in terms of control. Outside of actual control and movement, there was no real differences, as far as I could tell, but the control alone made it a much, much better game.

But yeah, for what it's worth I firmly believe that this isn't a placebo effect situation. All types of player logic and basketball play seemed identical excluding movement and pace, which to me lead to a much more fun game. Again, they seem to play the same, but control seemed a lot less frantic and more precise, so it lead to a much better playstyle overall.

[BA2929]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

So how far do we have to turn down the Help Defense slider to sort of fix this?


Any ideas? Does doing that even work?

We've all typed the same complaint different ways so far in this thread so we might as well try and find a work around until it's patched in 2 months. Because despite the dumb CPU AI I'm still enjoying my time with the game and I'd like to keep playing it.

[33JAF]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

So how far do we have to turn down the Help Defense slider to sort of fix this?


Any ideas? Does doing that even work?

There isn't anything we can do with sliders. It needs a patch. I've tried.

[BA2929]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

There isn't anything we can do with sliders. It needs a patch. I've tried.

So turning down the Help Defense slider in the coach settings all the way to zero does absolutely nothing?

What's the point of the slider existing then?