The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

[Dione2014]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I'm glad an important voice is pointing this out. Smoove is making a fair few negative 2k videos which is great for fixing the product.

I'm very happy he mentioned this. I believe this is the reason he doesn't go out to team up or do much work with 2K in general. How is it that all of these youtubers get flew out to team up and yet noting negative comes from any of them, even though we can clearly see the short comings of the game? Simply answer. They can't bite the hand that feeds them. Playing the game early mean early impression video uploads. They don't want to be at risk of not being able to go to 2K team up next year. I'm really glad Smoove uploaded this video. 2K will definitely see that video. And if it can be fixed im sure it will be.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I'm very happy he mentioned this. I believe this is the reason he doesn't go out to team up or do much work with 2K in general. How is it that all of these youtubers get flew out to team up and yet noting negative comes from any of them, even though we can clearly see the short comings of the game? Simply answer. They can't bite the hand that feeds them. Playing the game early mean early impression video uploads. They don't want to be at risk of not being able to go to 2K team up next year. I'm really glad Smoove uploaded this video. 2K will definitely see that video. And if it can be fixed im sure it will be.

Smoove got invited this year despite making videos like this previous years but he couldnt make it...

Also, you cant see all the issues of the game in one sitting, just like a lot of people here..including myself

[Dione2014]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Smoove got invited this year despite making videos like this previous years but he couldnt make it...

Also, you cant see all the issues of the game in one sitting, just like a lot of people here..including myself

Oh i thought he declined the team up offers. He hasn't been in a while and i heard somewhere that he could go but just didn't want to.

I'm not talking about the team up impressions. I tend not to pay much attention to that because i know just like we all do that one sitting isn't enough to notice the problems with the game. I'm talking about as of now they have been silent. Most of these you tubers have been playing the game non stop since release. That's enough to at least notice some issues, and the help D issue is a pretty obvious one granted you know how it's suppose to work.

[Optik]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I honestly don't understand the strong review scores. Are that many people ignorant about the actual game of basketball? The defensive AI is laugbaby broken. The game cannot be an 8 or 9 out of 10 in this state.

It's been this way for years. The people reviewing 2K are gamers not basketball fans. They have no idea what good or bad defense is. Apart from maybe OS, every other major reviewer will review 2K as a video game, not a basketball simulation.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I will enjoy 2k17 for what it is by icon controlling my off ball defenders, but whether the help defense and defenders are in proper position gets fixed will be the determining factor if I buy next years version or future releases. They fixed the halftime and post game highlights so I picked up 17 digitally.

Time to see if sliders or turning off ACE could at least help. Hopefully 2k truly addresses the defense either via patches or are sinking their teeth fixing the defense right this minute.

[Kstat]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Yeah. I don't necessarily care.

For years and years I've been tired of the lazy reaching and gambling knowing you could keep turbo rotating yourself out of lazy steal attempts.

I'm glad 2K put a stop to it. An emphasis should be made on breaking down a defense without mindlessly reaching for steals on defense with little real penalty.

If you play lazy defense and go for steals 40+ feet from the hoop, you SHOULD give up easy baskets. Period. There should be no good recovery option. And don't hide it behind "on ball defense is supposed to be impossible." That's crap.

As for the people complaining about the easy baskets once a ballhandler gets inside the lane, here's a protip: don't let your man get behind you 30 feet from the hoop: if you don't have a quality defender, play off. Give yourself a cushion. Shade to the ballhandler's weak hand. If your man gets by you 5 feet from the hoop, there won't be enough space to create much and the dump off won't be there, and a right handed player attacking the left side of the rim is way more likely to get blocked.

This is very basic stuff. The AI help D could be better of course but if you're in the right position you have little to worry about.

[Whomario]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Yeah. I don't necessarily care.

For years and years I've been tired of the lazy reaching and gambling knowing you could keep turbo rotating yourself out of lazy steal attempts.

I'm glad 2K put a stop to it. An emphasis should be made on breaking down a defense without mindlessly reaching for steals on defense with little real penalty.

If you play lazy defense and go for steals 40+ feet from the hoop, you SHOULD give up easy baskets. Period. There should be no good recovery option. And don't hide it behind "on ball defense is supposed to be impossible." That's crap.

As for the people complaining about the easy baskets once a ballhandler gets inside the lane, here's a protip: don't let your man get behind you 30 feet from the hoop: if you don't have a quality defender, play off. Give yourself a cushion. Shade to the ballhandler's weak hand. If your man gets by you 5 feet from the hoop, there won't be enough space to create much and the dump off won't be there, and a right handed player attacking the left side of the rim is way more likely to get blocked.

This is very basic stuff. The AI help D could be better of course but if you're in the right position you have little to worry about.

read the post(s) again, maybe.

[Kstat]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

read the post(s) again, maybe.

Oh no, I read it: complaining about the on ball D being too good and the help being too bad. The way I see it bad on ball D players need great help D to bail them out. No defense "plans for the breakdown." That's absurd. You plan to force your opponent into driving one way or angling another, but that is not "planning for the breakdown." That's just good team defense.

If you haphazardly get beaten off the dribble there is no defense for that. Your teammates are supposed to be slow to react. 2K players are finally learning that lesson after years and years of getting away with it.

[Thetruth9012]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Great post. There are a lot of bad things going on with the AI. I think the biggest problem is that 2k has too much going on under the hood. They have been overambitious adding things to the game while also taking shortcuts and neglecting legacy issues. It's missing key basketball fundamentals.

I would love for them to spend one cycle just fixing and tuning, rather than adding and expanding, but it would never go over well because people would complain about how not enough has changed. Those on top at 2k would never allow for it either.

I am really hoping that the post release support is big this year. This is the first time I am actually regretting buying the game. As a strictly offline vs CPU guy, I just can't play it in it's current state.

Here are some highlights and brief comments from a game I just watched, CPU vs CPU. I do this every year when I get the game to see how the AI is. It is a game within a game for me to edit and tune sliders to max out the CPUs potential. I saw a couple of odd things and decided to start recording them, and after the game was over I ended up with 7 minutes worth of short clips of the AI just being plain awful. Trust me, I am not one of those guys who gets his kicks from hating on 2k. I have always loved this game, but I am losing my faith.

Just check this out. CPUvCPU on superstar default. This is all from the same game. Please forgive my terrible editing skills.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5whUDJRHS7I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Perfect video good job someone should tweet this to 2k.


Wysłane z mojego LG-H525n przy użyciu Tapatalka

[BA2929]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

The stickiness of the CPU is especially frustrating this year for me....playing on Superstar/HOF. The drive and kick game feels non existent offline because I dont see enough clean blow bys.

Im all about adapting/ learning the moves and preached that throughout the entire 2K16 campaign...but its just so obnoxious to me this year...AI mirroring your moves....can still impede your progress completely turned around.....

Online is great because the human factor comes into play but I have to say offline has been a bit meh for me so far..

I've noticed all of this, as well as occasionally my ball handler will stutter step after he breaks down the defender allowing the defender to catch right back up, making the blow by impossible and setting back up the 1v1 situation.

Don't get me wrong I'm still enjoying the game and these things aren't noticeable (or happen, as I've had plenty of successful drive and kicks, but that mostly happens due to the bad AI help defense) every time down the court. But when they do happen they're so obvious and really ruin the experience.

[ch46647]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I've noticed all of this, as well as occasionally my ball handler will stutter step after he breaks down the defender allowing the defender to catch right back up, making the blow by impossible and setting back up the 1v1 situation.

Don't get me wrong I'm still enjoying the game and these things aren't noticeable (or happen) every time down the court. But when they do happen they're so obvious and really ruin the experience.

I notice the stutter from the ball handler after breaking down the defender. This was a huge issue in 2K16, and I did not notice it in the prelude. It's definitely made a return though..

I really wish 2K would remove all these artificial boosts/nerfs to the ball handler. The game is great, just let it plat out organically...

[BA2929]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I notice the stutter from the ball handler after breaking down the defender. This was a huge issue in 2K16, and I did not notice it in the prelude. It's definitely made a return though..

I really wish 2K would remove all these artificial boosts/nerfs to the ball handler. The game is great, just let it plat out organically...

It doesn't happen every time that I can recall, but it's present enough that it becomes annoying and frustrating.

I mean, why is it even there? What purpose does it serve? It only hurts the user, as that stutter step doesn't effect the CPU ball-handler.

[ch46647]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

It doesn't happen every time that I can recall, but it's present enough that it becomes annoying and frustrating.

I mean, why is it even there? What purpose does it serve? It only hurts the user, as that stutter step doesn't effect the CPU ball-handler.

I'm convinced all these shenanigans are implemented for balance.

[BA2929]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

I'm convinced all these shenanigans are implemented for balance.

Balance against who, though? Me vs the CPU? The game is hard enough at the highest levels, the CPU doesn't need any extra help lol. I'm not arguing with you here, btw, I'm just speaking out loud.

I understand it's hard to make a computer think and react like an actual human being, especially with intricate basketball movements, but small things like the stutter step, running the fastbreak and the AI runs to the 3pt line instantly or a CPU defender leaving a guy one pass away to double team are not intricate NBA moves yet they continuously happen in this game.

They've made a lot of strides this year in terms of gameplay and other areas in 2k17, but if the CPU AI can't handle basic basketball ideas that I even know about (and I haven't played competitive basketball since the 6th grade and that was at the YMCA), then something is going seriously awry.

[iam31yearsold]

Re: The FUNDAMENTAL issue with 2k17's AI Defense

Great post. There are a lot of bad things going on with the AI. I think the biggest problem is that 2k has too much going on under the hood. They have been overambitious adding things to the game while also taking shortcuts and neglecting legacy issues. It's missing key basketball fundamentalsfundamentalst.

I would love for them to spend one cycle just fixing and tuning, rather than adding and expanding, but it would never go over well because people would complain about how not enough has changed. Those on top at 2k would never allow for it either.

I am really hoping that the post release support is big this year. This is the first time I am actually regretting buying the game. As a strictly offline vs CPU guy, I just can't play it in it's current state.

Here are some highlights and brief comments from a game I just watched, CPU vs CPU. I do this every year when I get the game to see how the AI is. It is a game within a game for me to edit and tune sliders to max out the CPUs potential. I saw a couple of odd things and decided to start recording them, and after the game was over I ended up with 7 minutes worth of short clips of the AI just being plain awful. Trust me, I am not one of those guys who gets his kicks from hating on 2k. I have always loved this game, but I am losing my faith.

Just check this out. CPUvCPU on superstar default. This is all from the same game. Please forgive my terrible editing skills.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/5whUDJRHS7I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Oh my God what a mess.