The VC issue - perfectly put in words

[E The Rhymer]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

I am genuinely upset that sponsorships now give 100 VC. Like seriously there is zero legit reason they dropped it from the 2-7k you could get down to 100 like this is just.... On a lighter note it's now really funny when my agent talk about how much money I'm getting from them, like oh yeah Bruce I'm really raking in the dough rn maybe after the next 5 events I'll be able to afford a knee pad


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[meccs]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

I am genuinely upset that sponsorships now give 100 VC. Like seriously there is zero legit reason they dropped it from the 2-7k you could get down to 100 like this is just.... On a lighter note it's now really funny when my agent talk about how much money I'm getting from them, like oh yeah Bruce I'm really raking in the dough rn maybe after the next 5 events I'll be able to afford a knee pad

I still don't know what you mean by that. Yes, you get very little VC for the daily endorsements but you should get a bonus of 2k or 4k when you complete them. Or at least some milestone events gave me like a few thousand VC.

[E The Rhymer]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

I still don't know what you mean by that. Yes, you get very little VC for the daily endorsements but you should get a bonus of 2k or 4k when you complete them. Or at least some milestone events gave me like a few thousand VC.

I'm talking about the events on the calendar, before I was getting anywhere between 2-7k VC from them but now they are all giving me a few hundred.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SirGaryColeman]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

Have you noticed that famous YouTubers that play 2k get free VC?

These people help shape the opinion of the game, yet they get to skip the grind with free VC from 2k... that kinda proves the point that 2k knows having to grind for VC sucks, so they give it away for free to people with loud voices.

[meccs]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

It's the same for MyTeam. In 2K15 we got awesome players from the Domination packs. Like Curry, LBJ etc. In 2K16 you had to be very very lucky to get a superstar from a pack but you still could get good players from playing MyCareer like DeRozan or Butler. In 2K17 you don't even have that. Instead you get a few cards that are limited in uses, no unlocks from MyCareer and domination packs are terrible.

[Saxongirl]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

So because a created player comes out to an 81 and your normal MyCareer guy comes out to a 91 2K lied?

I really wish you guys would understand that these YouTubers are here specifically for your view count and they don't care at all about the game. Controversy = a higher sub count, unfortunately.

Since WHEN has anyone cared about the overall of a player?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I understand the issue with the attributes themselves, but the fact that a guy isn't the same OVR? And you guys tried posting a video about it to champion your cause?

It's time to settle down and give some real feedback instead of everyone being angry and spouting hate. That isn't what OS is for.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Feeling strongly and voicing your opinion are perfectly fine. And I get that as an offline player this directly affects. Truth is they're attached this year and nothing we can do about it. That may change next year (and you've seen - the devs see these forums) but.it isn't changing this year.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

1. I'd like to point out my petition. How is that not constructive? I collected nearly every issue mentioned here with VC. I supported my criticism with loads of evidence how the sale of VC is massively promoted, how everything, absolutely everything costs VC now, how gaining VC is much more of a grind this year, how there is basically continued "suggestions" throughout the mode to buy VC, buy VC, buy VC. Yet I post two videos of a Youtuber making an incredibly valuable point or rather points and suddenly the thread is full of hate and veering of point? No offense to you but I haven't seen a single contribution from you in this entire thread before and yet suddenly you charge in here and throw those accusations around and then basically threaten posters with a ban. Now you could argue that point but saying: this isn't what OS is about is basically saying: continue that line of thought and you are outta here. That's pretty harsh.

2. Voicing our opinion on issues or rather an issue that is severely affecting this game this year is the only way to actually try and get it improved by the next year. Are we supposed to say: well it's out now and it won't change so might as well take it as is and just wait for the next year. Well if it gets released it will be too late again. So when would you suggest voicing our concerns then? Because this is a conundrum. If we do it now, it's too late and if we wait until the next one it's too late again.

3. Agent00 and others who have called out these problems are guys who on average provide 2-5 videos on the game a week. I would really like to question your stance here. Sure they want views but do you really think someone would spend that much time on a game if he couldn't care less about it? Those guys have massive ratings in MyPark and MyCareer and have grinded themselves to HoF badges and other stuff. That takes loads of time. I can not fathom them not caring for a game at all yet spending 200-500 hours on those games, even as a job. Why would they do that? Why would they bother to record videos criticising specific problems in details from jump shots, to archetypes to VC if they didn't care about the game? Firstly they wouldn't notice those issues and secondly they wouldn't care.

4. On the issue of why this video makes me upset and how it is linked to the topic of this thread. I do not wish to show you my calculations again but without spending another 50 bucks or more on the game it takes about 150-200 hours to grind yourself into enough VC to get to around 85 (first batch of upgrades available without training). Add another 100 hours to get get enough VC to 95, add another 100 hours to get to 99 through the park, add several hundreds more to get the accessories, animations, jumpshots and what not for the Park and for MyCareer that you want, tattoos and what not. That's easily 500-1000 hours for one player to look and feel like you want him to be and to be the best that you can make him. Then you find out he is actually garbage at anything besides his archetype compared to even roleplayers like Kyle Korver and others and is rated an 81 in actuality. You grinded 500 hours to be the Jae Crowder of basketball... that just feels wrong especially given the prices.

It feels even worse when you realize you don't start at 57 or 61 or whatever it is you are starting these days with but with a 37 if you calculate the stats properly. A 37... that is roughly 30 points lower than the weakest player on the free agent list right now. It hurts because it makes you feel like an absolute loser to have put that much time and effort into this game only for it to show you the middle finger and again telling you: shoulda bought VC bro. This is just wrong. It's wrong to be charged and charged again and again for a game that costs 50 bucks every year. It's wrong to be charged like that for a game that is constantly delivered full of horrible bugs, some of them actually ancient bugs we have known since at least 2k15 if not 2k14. It makes you feel like a second class citizen compared to people who have another 100 or 200 bucks to spend on VC. I haven't even started adressing MyTeam which basically has mathematically no way for you to succeed from the game along unless you spend VC (which means grind like hell) or buy VC or MT because the game itself does not provide enough MT on its own to see you through the game mode.

So yes, some of us are pretty upset and angry because some of us have supported the game for ages. I myself have played it since I was in elementary school because I fell in love with basketball when I was little and had the chance to meet Dirk Nowitzki in Würzburg. I always bought it. I have never pirated a copy of the game, I always bough it when it came out. I have always loved playing the game. This isn't my game anymore. This game has alienated me and I do not care how many developers are active here. The criticism has been around for ages and no one has heard it. The criticism concerning cheaters, VC, bad servers, the game being delivered only half finished, the game being hyped to no end by trailers instead of investing into proper substance and so forth.

If there was a proper alternative, like for soccer, I would have switched long ago. There isn't and I gave the game a shot again this year because I thought that maybe some stuff had sunk in and there would be some turning back of user unfriendly things. There wasn't. I don't expect them anymore. Strauss Zelnick is the head of 2k's parent company and he has just defended Mafia 3 which got absolutely destroyed in the press and basically said: we don't care. We don't care whether you like it or not, we don't care whether it's good or not. We care that it sells. As long as it sells it's all good and people love it. That is the attitude of the CEO. It's the same attitude with which you get continuously disregarded by 2k Support and it's the same attitude in which a lot of devs or even community managers for 2k treat customers, who disagree or have concerns, on social media. I want to single out Leftos as one who answers and adress concerns and seem to genuinely care about the game.

People are just tired of being treated this way. Kickstarter campaigns are successfull because players like to feel a sense of agency. They are fans or supporters of a certain developers/genre/style of game and they want to feel like they are involved. Compare the 2k forums to the CDPR forums. They are empty. CD project Reds forums are crowded. The community managers actually communited when patches will come forward, if hotfixes would come going so far as to actually say: sorry guys, not this weekend since the devs have already gone home for the weekend or because there was a bank holiday. The community managers trawled the forums like crazy and adressed any bug that was mentioned. It was insane how many answers I received by Marcin Mormont who is the chief community manager of CDPR, a company who had just sold 25 Mio games and received 90 ratings throughout, winning every single award there is.

This game relies on its community. It needs the community. Rosters, new cyberfaces, courts, jerseys, players in the park, teams in ProAM. The game would be dead without a proper community yet that community gets ignored and no one even stops to think "Is it right that we should charge guys and girls who pay 50 bucks every year for out game to get the Steph Curry jumper?". This stuff was free in 2k11. In 2k12 I could absolutely plaster my player with accessories and tattoos before even playing a single game. Why can't I do that now? Why does it have to cost anything? If so, why can't it be a badge of honour saying: Look, that dude or dudette, played 500 hours to get a 99 player with all available badges on the best level and every accessory imaginable... wow, what dedication, what skill. No instead I go to the Park and see cheaters and guys who can't play a lick, have according to their steam account played through one season on MyCareer but have clearly just spent 200 Euro on VC. That's wrong. It does not reward players who grind and it does not award being able to actually play well. I want to feel a sense of agency again and I want to go back to not having to buy stuff that should be free to use since it's the core material of the game: shots and moves. I want to be able to know that players I play against have earned their stats and clothes and not bought them.

If you think it's hateful that I want to have our game back then okay. Nothing I can do about it. If I didn't love this franchise however, would I be upset? I wouldn't care if it didn't mean anything to me.

[Millennium]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

1. I'd like to point out my petition. How is that not constructive? I collected nearly every issue mentioned here with VC. I supported my criticism with loads of evidence how the sale of VC is massively promoted, how everything, absolutely everything costs VC now, how gaining VC is much more of a grind this year, how there is basically continued "suggestions" throughout the mode to buy VC, buy VC, buy VC. Yet I post two videos of a Youtuber making an incredibly valuable point or rather points and suddenly the thread is full of hate and veering of point? No offense to you but I haven't seen a single contribution from you in this entire thread before and yet suddenly you charge in here and throw those accusations around and then basically threaten posters with a ban. Now you could argue that point but saying: this isn't what OS is about is basically saying: continue that line of thought and you are outta here. That's pretty harsh.

2. Voicing our opinion on issues or rather an issue that is severely affecting this game this year is the only way to actually try and get it improved by the next year. Are we supposed to say: well it's out now and it won't change so might as well take it as is and just wait for the next year. Well if it gets released it will be too late again. So when would you suggest voicing our concerns then? Because this is a conundrum. If we do it now, it's too late and if we wait until the next one it's too late again.

3. Agent00 and others who have called out these problems are guys who on average provide 2-5 videos on the game a week. I would really like to question your stance here. Sure they want views but do you really think someone would spend that much time on a game if he couldn't care less about it? Those guys have massive ratings in MyPark and MyCareer and have grinded themselves to HoF badges and other stuff. That takes loads of time. I can not fathom them not caring for a game at all yet spending 200-500 hours on those games, even as a job. Why would they do that? Why would they bother to record videos criticising specific problems in details from jump shots, to archetypes to VC if they didn't care about the game? Firstly they wouldn't notice those issues and secondly they wouldn't care.

4. On the issue of why this video makes me upset and how it is linked to the topic of this thread. I do not wish to show you my calculations again but without spending another 50 bucks or more on the game it takes about 150-200 hours to grind yourself into enough VC to get to around 85 (first batch of upgrades available without training). Add another 100 hours to get get enough VC to 95, add another 100 hours to get to 99 through the park, add several hundreds more to get the accessories, animations, jumpshots and what not for the Park and for MyCareer that you want, tattoos and what not. That's easily 500-1000 hours for one player to look and feel like you want him to be and to be the best that you can make him. Then you find out he is actually garbage at anything besides his archetype compared to even roleplayers like Kyle Korver and others and is rated an 81 in actuality. You grinded 500 hours to be the Jae Crowder of basketball... that just feels wrong especially given the prices.

It feels even worse when you realize you don't start at 57 or 61 or whatever it is you are starting these days with but with a 37 if you calculate the stats properly. A 37... that is roughly 30 points lower than the weakest player on the free agent list right now. It hurts because it makes you feel like an absolute loser to have put that much time and effort into this game only for it to show you the middle finger and again telling you: shoulda bought VC bro. This is just wrong. It's wrong to be charged and charged again and again for a game that costs 50 bucks every year. It's wrong to be charged like that for a game that is constantly delivered full of horrible bugs, some of them actually ancient bugs we have known since at least 2k15 if not 2k14. It makes you feel like a second class citizen compared to people who have another 100 or 200 bucks to spend on VC. I haven't even started adressing MyTeam which basically has mathematically no way for you to succeed from the game along unless you spend VC (which means grind like hell) or buy VC or MT because the game itself does not provide enough MT on its own to see you through the game mode.

So yes, some of us are pretty upset and angry because some of us have supported the game for ages. I myself have played it since I was in elementary school because I fell in love with basketball when I was little and had the chance to meet Dirk Nowitzki in Würzburg. I always bought it. I have never pirated a copy of the game, I always bough it when it came out. I have always loved playing the game. This isn't my game anymore. This game has alienated me and I do not care how many developers are active here. The criticism has been around for ages and no one has heard it. The criticism concerning cheaters, VC, bad servers, the game being delivered only half finished, the game being hyped to no end by trailers instead of investing into proper substance and so forth.

If there was a proper alternative, like for soccer, I would have switched long ago. There isn't and I gave the game a shot again this year because I thought that maybe some stuff had sunk in and there would be some turning back of user unfriendly things. There wasn't. I don't expect them anymore. Strauss Zelnick is the head of 2k's parent company and he has just defended Mafia 3 which got absolutely destroyed in the press and basically said: we don't care. We don't care whether you like it or not, we don't care whether it's good or not. We care that it sells. As long as it sells it's all good and people love it. That is the attitude of the CEO. It's the same attitude with which you get continuously disregarded by 2k Support and it's the same attitude in which a lot of devs or even community managers for 2k treat customers, who disagree or have concerns, on social media. I want to single out Leftos as one who answers and adress concerns and seem to genuinely care about the game.

People are just tired of being treated this way. Kickstarter campaigns are successfull because players like to feel a sense of agency. They are fans or supporters of a certain developers/genre/style of game and they want to feel like they are involved. Compare the 2k forums to the CDPR forums. They are empty. CD project Reds forums are crowded. The community managers actually communited when patches will come forward, if hotfixes would come going so far as to actually say: sorry guys, not this weekend since the devs have already gone home for the weekend or because there was a bank holiday. The community managers trawled the forums like crazy and adressed any bug that was mentioned. It was insane how many answers I received by Marcin Mormont who is the chief community manager of CDPR, a company who had just sold 25 Mio games and received 90 ratings throughout, winning every single award there is.

This game relies on its community. It needs the community. Rosters, new cyberfaces, courts, jerseys, players in the park, teams in ProAM. The game would be dead without a proper community yet that community gets ignored and no one even stops to think "Is it right that we should charge guys and girls who pay 50 bucks every year for out game to get the Steph Curry jumper?". This stuff was free in 2k11. In 2k12 I could absolutely plaster my player with accessories and tattoos before even playing a single game. Why can't I do that now? Why does it have to cost anything? If so, why can't it be a badge of honour saying: Look, that dude or dudette, played 500 hours to get a 99 player with all available badges on the best level and every accessory imaginable... wow, what dedication, what skill. No instead I go to the Park and see cheaters and guys who can't play a lick, have according to their steam account played through one season on MyCareer but have clearly just spent 200 Euro on VC. That's wrong. It does not reward players who grind and it does not award being able to actually play well. I want to feel a sense of agency again and I want to go back to not having to buy stuff that should be free to use since it's the core material of the game: shots and moves. I want to be able to know that players I play against have earned their stats and clothes and not bought them.

If you think it's hateful that I want to have our game back then okay. Nothing I can do about it. If I didn't love this franchise however, would I be upset? I wouldn't care if it didn't mean anything to me.

So, I appreciate you wrote this all out but the response is easy:

If you are angry, that's fine. You post angry and this isn't the place for you.

The rules have been set. There will be respect to other users/devs/staff. Period. I don't care how mad anyone is.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Saxongirl]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

How do I disrespect anyone? I didn't mention any other user. I actually pointed out Leftos positively, I didn't disrespect any staff. I simply said that I'm surprised to hear you claim that me or others post hateful and angry and have no valid or constructive criticism to offer after 46 pages in this thread, after starting a petition just because I posted the link to video. This seems incredibly excessive to me.

[E The Rhymer]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

It feels even worse when you realize you don't start at 57 or 61 or whatever it is you are starting these days with but with a 37 if you calculate the stats properly. A 37... that is roughly 30 points lower than the weakest player on the free agent list right now.

I've never heard that before but that is pretty insane but makes sense with the inflated OVR


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Millennium]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

How do I disrespect anyone? I didn't mention any other user. I actually pointed out Leftos positively, I didn't disrespect any staff. I simply said that I'm surprised to hear you claim that me or others post hateful and angry and have no valid or constructive criticism to offer after 46 pages in this thread, after starting a petition just because I posted the link to video. This seems incredibly excessive to me.

Did I say you? I'm speaking in generals.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Saxongirl]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

Did I say you? I'm speaking in generals.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Well you said I post angry and this isn't the place for me. I assumed the rest of the post was adressing me as well. If the you was meant as a general if anyone posts angry then this isn't the place for you then I misunderstood you. English isn't my first language.

[Millennium]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

Well you said I post angry and this isn't the place for me. I assumed the rest of the post was adressing me as well. If the you was meant as a general if anyone posts angry then this isn't the place for you then I misunderstood you. English isn't my first language.

That is exactly what I meant. Anyone that posts angry - this is not the place for them and they will be removed.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Saxongirl]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

That is exactly what I meant. Anyone that posts angry - this is not the place for them and they will be removed.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Alright then I misunderstood. Any way I said what I wanted to say and tried to explain it the best I can to you. Whether you agree or not is not up to me and neither is whether you agree that the points are valid, even if you might not rank them as highly as I do. I simply would like to have the game back. I honestly don't care about all the fancy stuff and storylines. I want to play MyCareer for its own sake. I'd like to have a more indepth association mode and I'd like VC to be removed from the offline parts of the game. I don't mind VC for the park since micro transactions are part of most MMO modes but I don't think it has any reason to exist in MyGM or MyCareer. I also understand people who don't want to grind in MyCareer. So why not disconnect the two? If people want to play online, let them. Have a seperate player for the park, with archetypes or not, I don't mind and for Pro AM. Let MyCareer players plaster their players with tattoos and what not for no charge and let me play the game.

I just want to play basketball and feel like Dirk. It's hard enough trying to get taken seriously in real life when you want to play basketball and you are a chick and barely above 5 feet but to not let me just be what I want to be in a videogame is really harsh. Atm I'm actually running 2 2k's side by side. I play 2k15 for the Association mode and 2k11 for the career. I put 2k17 to the side since a lot of issues haven't been resolved yet but more importantly it just pains me to grind more after nearly 400 hours on the game. I want to have fun not grind.

[ILLSmak]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

We should all take a step back and discuss.

The reason that overall would matter, altho it doesn't matter to me when playing, is that it creates an inflation where you are buying VC that is actually worth less than it seems.

-Smak

[kadzier]

Re: The VC issue - perfectly put in words

Like many others have said, 2K isn't the only developer to have microtransactions, but even among sports games, they are by far the worse. I've played both FIFA and MLB the Show and they have the microtransaction option too but the natural progression is significantly more fair and requires less grinding than 2k. It's obvious that 2K slowed down character progression from what it used to be-- remember a few years back when your myplayer actually STARTED at like a 70 OVR?