Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trailer

[Cowboy008]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

The trailer was good. I'm glad we were finally able to see some gameplay.

[youvalss]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Jay, your observation about the lighting immediately reminded me of this. So, I'm just going to leave it here.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zlh_SHWemHs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[BA2929]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

If you look at the 0:52 mark, you'll notice that the lighting is completely different than what it is at the 1:42 mark

https://youtu.be/O1IcK-5cWQY

Example :




Either these clips were shot from a separate build, or this is an indication that we'll finally be able to adjust the arena lighting ��


***Absolutely praying for the latter***

To me, it honestly looks like the bottom video was compressed more than the top, or the contrast was adjusted for the bottom video. The colors seem much more dull in the bottom pic and it isn't as sharp. I personally don't think it has anything to do with the lighting, but more how the video was either captured or color corrected.

[SonicMage]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

If you look at the 0:52 mark, you'll notice that the lighting is completely different than what it is at the 1:42 mark

https://youtu.be/O1IcK-5cWQY

Example :




Either these clips were shot from a separate build, or this is an indication that we'll finally be able to adjust the arena lighting 😱


***Absolutely praying for the latter***

It's just a difference in contrast between the two videos, nothing having to do with lighting. Look at the difference between the scoreboard UI overlays in the corner; they are also quite different, and those items wouldn't be affected at all by lighting.

[GloGangJay]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Jay, your observation about the lighting immediately reminded me of this. So, I'm just going to leave it here.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Zlh_SHWemHs?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Lol accurate comparison

[GloGangJay]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

It's just a difference in contrast between the two videos, nothing having to do with lighting. Look at the difference between the scoreboard UI overlays in the corner; they are also quite different, and those items wouldn't be affected at all by lighting.

Good eye! Didn't catch that

[OTMax]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Still not how Staples looks in real life, way too bright audience.

[BA2929]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Still not how Staples looks in real life, way too bright audience.

Looks pretty spot on to me:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

[jmarcguy]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

I'm not seeing the difference in bulk between Shaq & KG. KG almost looks bigger.


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[ViolenceFight]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

@Strawberry

I honestly don't see huge issues in your defense concerns. I don't think the correct play in the embiid scenario was to cheat up on either side. Heyward box out was late, but in line with real basketball. He should've taken one extra step out earlier, but I'm taking into context one single clip.

The play looked like a clear ISO post up for Embiid, and I think cheating from the defense either way also gives up a mid range 2. You could only cheat a step off your guy, you won't make it to embiid to disrupt the shot, especially after he cleared space. I feel like this was an alright way to approach this possession. Alternatively I would hope one or 2 of those would lead to a double team, but again, 1 clip.

I don't understand your problem with the Kyrie lay up either. Irving is met at the rim and finishes, while help opens up a dump pass 3 to a guy who shot 35% from 3 last season, or a pull up mid range. There's not much you can help on that shot. In a scenario where Kyrie gets middle penetration like that, you can't really help.

Center should pick up the drive, one wing should rotate to pick up the dump pass to the C, and kyrie's defender rotates to cover the wing gap. Even then, that's still on Kyrie for finishing a circus shot on good contact.

Once again though: This needs to be in larger sampling. The rotating didn't happen. But what happens next time down the court? Is this what happens every time? More over, what difficulty is this? These are a ton of questions that need to get answered before we bust out pitchforks.

I know you're actively hunting for stuff to call 2k out on, and that's good. The community needs people doing that. I'm concerned you're looking too hard at things without knowing what's controlling them under the hood or how isolated of an event they are. We also don't know the build that trailer was made using. So, a lot can be way different.

No disrespect, keep doing what your doing, but maybe don't let it get too overblown in your mind until you can for sure know if it's an actual issue, yanno?

[Goffs]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

I'm not seeing the difference in bulk between Shaq & KG. KG almost looks bigger.


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Big head mode for the classic players.

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[FerdBrown]

Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trailer

The Trade may be vetoed by Cavs. Will we see Cavs Kyrie and Celtic Kyrie in a single cover? Bonus!

[melo627]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Any reason why you guys think curry is wearing his old shoes? Did you guys see the updated conley trailer?

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

@Strawberry

I honestly don't see huge issues in your defense concerns. I don't think the correct play in the embiid scenario was to cheat up on either side. Heyward box out was late, but in line with real basketball. He should've taken one extra step out earlier, but I'm taking into context one single clip.

Spoiler

The play looked like a clear ISO post up for Embiid, and I think cheating from the defense either way also gives up a mid range 2. You could only cheat a step off your guy, you won't make it to embiid to disrupt the shot, especially after he cleared space. I feel like this was an alright way to approach this possession. Alternatively I would hope one or 2 of those would lead to a double team, but again, 1 clip.

I don't understand your problem with the Kyrie lay up either. Irving is met at the rim and finishes, while help opens up a dump pass 3 to a guy who shot 35% from 3 last season, or a pull up mid range. There's not much you can help on that shot. In a scenario where Kyrie gets middle penetration like that, you can't really help.

Center should pick up the drive, one wing should rotate to pick up the dump pass to the C, and kyrie's defender rotates to cover the wing gap. Even then, that's still on Kyrie for finishing a circus shot on good contact.

Once again though: This needs to be in larger sampling. The rotating didn't happen. But what happens next time down the court? Is this what happens every time? More over, what difficulty is this? These are a ton of questions that need to get answered before we bust out pitchforks.

I know you're actively hunting for stuff to call 2k out on, and that's good. The community needs people doing that. I'm concerned you're looking too hard at things without knowing what's controlling them under the hood or how isolated of an event they are. We also don't know the build that trailer was made using. So, a lot can be way different.

No disrespect, keep doing what your doing, but maybe don't let it get too overblown in your mind until you can for sure know if it's an actual issue, yanno?

Putting your post in spoiler tag to simply save forum real estate.

No disrespect taken. But I certainly would not say I'm actively hunting for stuff especially not with this particular trailer when the plays are being displayed back to back to back to back. All I'm doing is looking at what's there with the defense. Others are looking at footplant and whether the defense is still sliding. Others are looking at player models. My whole intention was to check out the defense.

Trailers and limited isolated gameplay clips are always going to be questionable in the right or wrong direction because we don't have the full context.

True...

Joel Embiid portion
Again, everyone else is going to be the guru when it comes to naming plays, knowing the exact ins and outs of the plays, but all I can say is that that particular play doesn't resemble much of what I see in real life. I ran a youtube search for "Post Isolations" and even though the perimeter defenders do stay close to their man, they still are in anticipation to what Embiid would do. They're not static in the same spot like how 2k has them. You don't need to "hug" your assigned man like how 2k does to keep within arms reach in case you have to close out on the outside shooter. I simply want to see more "defensive anticipation" to clamp the paint if necessary rather than leaving the area open. Isn't giving up a bucket in the paint worst than having a shooter attempt an outside lower percentage shot?

But more importantly, these initial concern stems from reading about "awareness" in the recent gameplay blog on top of the massive NBA2k17 sample size that has the same exact defensive scenarios playing out where "cheating anticipatory help" defense was practically absent. Plus, the massive amount of real NBA game footage that simply doesn't have defenders essentially camped in the same spot without subtle movements in any which direction. It's as if the defenders are programmed to go and stand at the spot without being programmed with the whereabouts to be "aware" of the situation playing out.

Kyrie Driving the paint portion
As you can see from my quote (way below), I actually didn't have a problem with that sequence. I said it was my favorite sequence from the trailer. My only problem is #17 running towards the baseline (a legacy issue that seems to come up as indicated by the following:
(1) Durant running towards baseline when he should have ran straight towards the 3 point shooter
(2) Isaiah Thomas running towards the baseline when he should have ran in a straight line towards the shooter.

Durant running towards baseline
<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/96Rk3jhDcT8" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Spoiler

Side Note: Someone told me once that because a certain clip is putting the "spotlight" on a certain item(s) that I shouldn't make too much of what's going on in the video. Since this video is about "new commentators," any comments about the video should have been on them and rather than gameplay, player awareness, player position, and anything else that has nothing to do with the commentary. Anyways, unfortunately, I'm going to disregard that person's suggestion because these look to be full plays from a broadcast standpoint. Better perspective.

Tell me that I'm wrong and that's fine. I'm not a basketball guru at all. I don't know much about plays and what goes where, but I'm just going by what I see on live TV compared to what I see with NBA2k18 footage.

But some concerns I have from the video.
(1) Player floor position awareness and the lack of "cheating" "anticipatory help" defense.
(2) Isolation plays
(3) Crossover dribble drives.

Click on spoiler tag to see gifs and examples of my concerns.

Spoiler

(1) Player floor position awareness and the lack of "cheating" "anticipatory help" defense. So my number concern has been the defenders simply playing too close to their man on the perimeter during certain sequences and but more importantly not really providing "cheating" or proper anticipatory "help" defense.

Example is the post game from the video:
Joel Embiid in the post. All defenders are simply focused on their man, especially the defenders at the top of the three. With the exception of the corner three defenders, the two defenders up top don't seem to care about providing help because they have their backs turned to the play with no head tracking.

Side tidbit, I would have like to have seen Hayward at least attempt to box out Ben Simmons as he made his way towards the paint. Hayward actually head tracked Simmons move to the inside but still didn't react much. In addition, #11 at the lower corner also didn't "cheat" or "help" of any kind to potentially disrupt Embiids' post game. Would have also like to have seen #13 provide at minimal some disruption as Embiid starting moving towards the center paint area.

Kevin Love is essentially in the post position guarded by Klay. Despite Klay being a very solid defender. The rest of the defenders are still at arms length of their man able to recover if needed but the important thing is that all the defenders are "cheating" with "help" defense ready to provide assistance if needed.

Again, maybe it's just me. But I would have like to have see more "space" between the offensive and defense. Would have liked to have seen the defenders been closer to the paint in case there's a driver. Maybe that's just me. At least the center motion backed towards the paint.

"Anticipatory help" or "cheating" defense clamping down the paint if needed.

The following is actually may favorite sequence in the video solely because of defensive positioning. I actually like the following a whole lot better because you see all five players keep an eye on the ball handler as well as keeping a more spacious distance between them and their man in case they need to clamp the paint to provide help defense. The defenders aren't "hugging" their assignment. Secondly, seeing the blow by and help defense meeting at the bucket is nice. My only minor gripe is #17 moving towards the baseline rather than close out on the driver OR if he wanted to ran back to guard the shooter in case Irving kicks it out to the corner. I simply didn't like what looks like a legacy programmed "movement location" towards the baseline.

Spoiler

(1) Isolation plays. I've never been too fond of how 2k positions off-ball defensive players' positioning so far away from the isolation play. It resembles a lot of 2k17. My idea of an isolation is that the player essentially is in a triple threat position with a live ball. He could drive the paint (1st option), drive hard but pull up for a jumper (2nd option), or take an outside shot (3rd option). That is how I always picture it. But the most important thing being that the isolation player is incredibly adept at all three, but even more skilled at driving the paint and is very likely his go to move.

Which is why I don't understand why the massive amount of space between the isolation and the rest of the defenders. I like that the center started to cheat towards Kyrie, but then the center completely backed off. While all the other wing defenders are playing tight on their man. Even if the outside shooters were solid 3 point shooters, shouldn't the first line of defense be stopping the isolation drive?

The following looks like an isolation play that is about to go down. Lebron eventually drives the paint and gets snuffed by the three defenders because the defenders were "cheating" with anticipatory "help" defense. Even though the play looks like an isolation setup (at least that's what it looks like to me), the defenders weren't playing tight on their assigned man. They probably recognized that Lebron's first move could very well have been to drive the paint rather than take an outside shot. The defenders were essentially still within recoverable distance to contest the outside shot.

(3) Crossover drives. Note, I personally don't use the crossover in 2k basketball much because I'm simply not that good at it on the sticks. I use player movement and ball movement to score. That's just how my mind is wired.

Even so, I never really liked how it requires the ball handler to move either to the left or right several feet sort of like going in circular arc motion, before actually able to cross and get pass the defender. I was hoping to see more "confined area/space/restricted" crossovers where the ball handler can remain directly in front of the defender and do a quick crossover to get by the defender without having to move laterally several/few feet before exploding laterally to drive.

Kyrie Irving had to move laterally 2-3 feet in order to crossover and drive. The following doesn't give me hope that the defenders are less sticky on drives nor that there will be more hip rides. And I've seen this multiples in 2k17 youtube videos. It's nothing really new.

Reggie Jackson does a more "confined area/space/restricted" crossover to get by his man without having to move laterally 2-3 feet. He just does it with the defender directly in front of him.

Concern #1


Concern #2


Concern #3

[23]

Re: Kobe Bryant and Kevin Garnett Set to Join the Broadcast Booth in NBA 2K18 - Trail

Any reason why you guys think curry is wearing his old shoes? Did you guys see the updated conley trailer?

Yeah I saw that he got his new hairstyle in. Must be a fresh scan because Ronnie texted him about it about a week and a half ago