NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

[MarkWilliam]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Yall acting like Scottie did not have even a single brain fart in his career. If it is consistent with goat level defenders then I call it a bug. Even best defenders like Kawhi, Dray make mistakes or get shook.

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Umm.... just.... no.

If you want to just justify this as a brain fart then I'm sorry dude but you're either a big 2K fan boy or just plain naive.

It's ok if there's something that's not quite right. It's important to point these things out.

Pippen has NEVER done this in his entire career. I promise.

[8KB24]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

You want to tell me Scottie never ever ever made a mistake on defensive end, even at his peak?

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[MarkWilliam]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

You want to tell me Scottie never ever ever made a mistake on defensive end, even at his peak?

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No.

But what I'm trying to outline is, I'm certain this is not an intentional, pre-programmed mistake being made by the AI.

This is a basic set being run from an inbounds pass. No basketball player on earth would just get lost and fail to follow their man in this fashion.

To justify it is simply being in denial.

[jlaz]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

You want to tell me Scottie never ever ever made a mistake on defensive end, even at his peak?

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it's obviously bad coding/programming... look at the player model.

[8KB24]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Not justifying it. Hence why I said "If it is consistent with goat level defenders then I call it a bug."

If it is once in a lifetime thing with Scottie, Dray etc I call it not having 99 in everything.

[MarkWilliam]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Yeah fair enough..... maybe you're right.

Changing the subject though, I also noticed a few comments on the clipping issue. But check this footage out - maybe the clipping isn't that unrealistic after all....

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Yall acting like Scottie did not have even a single brain fart in his career. If it is consistent with goat level defenders then I call it a bug. Even best defenders like Kawhi, Dray make mistakes or get shook.

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

Not justifying it. Hence why I said "If it is consistent with goat level defenders then I call it a bug."

If it is once in a lifetime thing with Scottie, Dray etc I call it not having 99 in everything.

I already mentioned this once about the a sequence involving Rose from another video.

We don't have an issue with lapses in defensive IQ or defensive awareness. That's not the concern here to be honest. It's "how" it's expressed that's the concern. What you see with Scottie definitely looks like a programming bug. I've included screenshot below of what's happening and what should of happened.

At the beginning of the sequence (screenshot below), Scottie (green box) is guarding the out of bounds baseline area directly under the hoop where no one is positioned. Scottie is suppose to be guarding Grant Hill (yellow box).

Notice Scottie's animation isn't lined up properly with Grant Hill. Scottie should have been directly face guarding Grant Hill straight up. Watch the animations for Grant and Scottie. Grant is calling for the ball; Scottie is waving his arms up trying to deny the pass. That's where the programming bug is starts. This sequence is not a poor defensive lack of awareness concern. It's a bug.

The ball is getting inbounded from 10-15 feet away (orange box) to Scottie's left while Scottie looks to be guarding the out of bounds baseline underneath the hoop.

Notice Scottie doing an animation to shield off the pass to Grant Hill are not synced or positioned properly. This is why it's a bug and not a defensive awareness problem.






This is where Scottie should have been positioned to guard Grant Hill straight up. Notice the major difference in location between where Scottie is playing (bug) and where he should have been positioned.

[MarkWilliam]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Sometimes visual aids like this help get the message across.

Great stuff strawberryshortcake!

[MarkWilliam]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Spoiler

I already mentioned this once about the a sequence involving Rose from another video.

We don't have an issue with lapses in defensive IQ or defensive awareness. That's not the concern here to be honest. It's "how" it's expressed that's the concern. What you see with Scottie definitely looks like a programming bug. I've included screenshot below of what's happening and what should of happened.

At the beginning of the sequence (screenshot below), Scottie (green box) is guarding the out of bounds baseline area directly under the hoop where no one is positioned. Scottie is suppose to be guarding Grant Hill (yellow box).

Notice Scottie's animation isn't lined up properly with Grant Hill. Scottie should have been directly face guarding Grant Hill straight up. Watch the animations for Grant and Scottie. Grant is calling for the ball; Scottie is waving his arms up trying to deny the pass. That's where the programming bug is starts. This sequence is not a poor defensive lack of awareness concern. It's a bug.

The ball is getting inbounded from 10-15 feet away (orange box) to Scottie's left while Scottie looks to be guarding the out of bounds baseline underneath the hoop.

Notice Scottie doing an animation to shield off the pass to Grant Hill are not synced or positioned properly. This is why it's a bug and not a defensive awareness problem.

This is where Scottie should have been positioned to guard Grant Hill straight up. Notice the major difference in location between where Scottie is playing (bug) and where he should have been positioned.

Further to this post, what happens after the inbound compounds the issue. See GIF on the previous page.

[SonicMage]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

I already mentioned this once about the a sequence involving Rose from another video.

We don't have an issue with lapses in defensive IQ or defensive awareness. That's not the concern here to be honest. It's "how" it's expressed that's the concern. What you see with Scottie definitely looks like a programming bug. I've included screenshot below of what's happening and what should of happened.

At the beginning of the sequence (screenshot below), Scottie (green box) is guarding the out of bounds baseline area directly under the hoop where no one is positioned. Scottie is suppose to be guarding Grant Hill (yellow box).

Notice Scottie's animation isn't lined up properly with Grant Hill. Scottie should have been directly face guarding Grant Hill straight up. Watch the animations for Grant and Scottie. Grant is calling for the ball; Scottie is waving his arms up trying to deny the pass. That's where the programming bug is starts. This sequence is not a poor defensive lack of awareness concern. It's a bug.

The ball is getting inbounded from 10-15 feet away (orange box) to Scottie's left while Scottie looks to be guarding the out of bounds baseline underneath the hoop.

Notice Scottie doing an animation to shield off the pass to Grant Hill are not synced or positioned properly. This is why it's a bug and not a defensive awareness problem.






This is where Scottie should have been positioned to guard Grant Hill straight up. Notice the major difference in location between where Scottie is playing (bug) and where he should have been positioned.

Right idea, but just a little off, in my estimation. It's not a positional issue, but rather a directional one. If it was just a matter of confusion on difference of position, Pippen would've run in the same direction as Hill as soon as the play started. But instead what do we see? Pippen runs in the *opposite* direction as Hill. I have a feeling there's a little vector math issue where Pippen is confused as to which direction Hill is in relative to himself.

That or, like what we saw in 2K17, the bug is that a defensive player will get confused about which player to guard while standing around the basket. In this case, he may be torn about guarding Lanier in the corner.

Nice visuals, though.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Friday we will really get to test it out...that's what I'm waiting on..

Apparently there will be 5 on 5 gameplay in some form so I am really looking forward to it....hopefully we can identify and squeeze something into that first patch if need be..

[MarkWilliam]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Friday we will really get to test it out...that's what I'm waiting on..

Apparently there will be 5 on 5 gameplay in some form so I am really looking forward to it....hopefully we can identify and squeeze something into that first patch if need be..

That's definitely the hope man. If a day 1 patch can clean this one up, that's all one could hope for.

Keen to see what everyone says about the prelude and to check out some of the clips people will upload. (I game on PC so will just hang on for that extra week).

Next week the flood gates will open when people start getting it early aswell.

Not long now....!!

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Spoiler

Right idea, but just a little off, in my estimation. It's not a positional issue, but rather a directional one. If it was just a matter of confusion on difference of position, Pippen would've run in the same direction as Hill as soon as the play started. But instead what do we see? Pippen runs in the *opposite* direction as Hill. I have a feeling there's a little vector math issue where Pippen is confused as to which direction Hill is in relative to himself.

That or, like what we saw in 2K17, the bug is that a defensive player will get confused about which player to guard while standing around the basket. In this case, he may be torn about guarding Lanier in the corner.

Nice visuals, though.

I think it could be combination of both.

Had Pippen been positioned properly, he could very well have followed Grant Hill. But the animation alignment being off could have resulted in Pippen going haywire not realizing where Grant was running.

Maybe Pipen was programmed to stick with Grant when Pippen is "X" distance away from Grant. But because Pippen starts at X+10 units (or whatever distance) from Grant, then that Pippen needed to pick up the closest man, which was number #18 at the lower corner which is why we see Pippen drift towards that direction.

As you can see once Pippen picks up #18, he continues to "guard" #18, but as soon as Grant Hill #33 makes his way into the area of Pippen, Pippen starts to follow Grant #33. Also to note, when Pippen picks up #18 he notices his teammate has picked up #18 so Pippen kind of does a haywire back and forth shuffle until #33 crosses into Pippen's field. Pippen is really "bugged" out.

In other words, I do think the bug starts off with the initial setup.

Spoiler tag includes Pippen gif as reference

Spoiler

<iframe src='https://gfycat.com/ifr/AptPepperyIrishredandwhitesetter' frameborder='0' scrolling='no' allowfullscreen width='640' height='360'></iframe>

[MarkWilliam]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

Yesterdays video from Brian also showed an issue on the first possession (Bulls at Pistons).

Grant Hill catches (Pistons running what looks like a horns setup). On the catch, Pippen and Jordan both drop off considerably. Hill is left wide open, takes and makes the J. Something about the moment the catch happens almost triggers the defenders to sag back. Weird.

I tweeted OG about these issues, but haven't had much joy getting acknowledged.

Still hopeful a patch is in the works, but would be nice just to know for peace of mind.

[jlaz]

Re: NBA 2K18 AI Improvements Blog From Scott O’Gallagher

nice job on the images, strawberry. I really hope they can sort this out.