New CAP system

[TGsoGood]

Re: New CAP system

definitely going to try and weather the storm, in hopes 2K can improve the CAP via Patch. Still going to create draft classes and try to make players look as diverse as possible with the CAP system.

This is my attitude going into the release. I personally enjoy completely fictional leagues in addition to the base rosters.

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[MarvellousOne]

Re: New CAP system

I just hate that we're probably going to lose all of those great custom draft classes that guys like Embrace The Pace used to release. They made the game so much better. Maybe we'll get lucky and they'll be able to patch it to some degree. If not, I guess I'll just try and enjoy the game as much as possible and hope 2K19 gets us to where we need to be.

Classic Roster makers, Real Draft Class makers are going to really fill the blow. Fictional draft class makers will feel the blow a bit less but still hurts never the less.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: New CAP system

You are more than welcome to voice your frustrations in this thread.

Personal attacks on 2K employees isn't going to be allowed though, never has been or will be. Keep this in mind going forward. Enough warnings have been given.

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[VAWereWolf65]

Re: New CAP system

Another thing i'm worried about is the guys who haven't gotten face scans from 2k.

2k has never done a very good job on CAPs of guys who haven't gotten face scans, and with this new system, they're gonna be way, way worse

[BluFu]

Re: New CAP system

The deciding factor for me is going to be how diverse players look in MyLeague. If any franchise guys can run some simulations, see what the face diversity looks like, and then post their opinion here that would help me out a lot on my decision to purchase.

[trekfan]

Re: New CAP system

The deciding factor for me is going to be how diverse players look in MyLeague. If any franchise guys can run some simulations, see what the face diversity looks like, and then post their opinion here that would help me out a lot on my decision to purchase.

Gonna be one of the first things I test. Davez did say in the MyGM/MyLeague thread that they were doing 80 year soaks ...

Still in progress with the tuning...

But, what we typically do is run 80-year soaks to try and tweak and tune things like generation, progression, and simulator tuning over time. We also do a soak where we run season 1 80 times to try and get the stats correct for the first season. We'll do these soaks, analyze the data, then make tweaks and run them again.

(It's worth noting that even though there are clearly problems with the simulator, I gotta say that it was spitting out the Russel Westbrook's season triple double last year before he did it - QA even put a bug in for it saying that it was impossible and that nobody's done it since the Big O...but Tim's simulator got it right. )

As for the discussion of the randomness, it's maybe (probably) true... but I'm pretty sure that if you could replay real life over that the Warriors wouldn't have won last year 100% of the time. Maybe they'd do so more than our sims, but it's impossible to know for sure. When you see the analytics guys posting the win% likelihood of a team, even when it's GSW vs BKN, they still don't give them a 100%. If you happen to simulate and you see that time they lose to them, it'll always seem broken. Even though it's a statistical likelihood that it'll happen at some point if you could replay the game over and over again.

I do, however, agree that it may happen too often in our simulations, whether a problem with ratings or the simulator. Very difficult problem to solve as we'll tune the simulator and feel good about things, but then the roster will change throughout the year, and the results will no longer look even remotely close to where we were at... There's a lot of moving targets and a lot of moving parts to get this stuff right.

Case in point... we try to hit certain targets for things like getting the # of 20 point scorers close to real life. Our simulator was spitting out around 30 on average, so we took time to make tunes to bring that down to close to 20, which was the total for the '15-'16 season (with the seasons prior to that being 15, 19, 9, and 12). Of course, the '16-'17 season played out and ended up with 31 20-pt scorers so we tried to tune something to be more like real life but ended up failing to replicate what ended up happening... Many nights of no sleep nights trying to make this stuff good, but it almost always ends up in failure.

(eventually we'll give up and put in a simulator tuning menu in the game that has like 1,000 sliders in it)

I can't imagine they didn't look at the auto-generated draft classes and make sure they weren't filled with clones, but I have no idea what they were actually looking at -- whether it was just straight data/variables or more visual like (basically running a MyLeague sim like we would).

Combined with this paragraph in the MyLeague/GM blog itself:

Improved Draft Class Generation
We spent a fairly considerable chunk of time early in development this year re-thinking how we generate prospects, particularly with respect to their player types. Looking back on 2K17, we just weren’t satisfied with the breadth of players coming out of the generated draft classes. With NBA 2K18, players now have a more appropriate spread of attributes and tendencies with respect to their given player type. Our new system allows us to more easily update the generation templates outside of the typical monolithic patch release, meaning we can continue to update this logic all season long based on your feedback.

I suspect the looks of draft classes can also be altered, on some level, on the backend with that generation template.

But it's just speculation. If we end up with clones 5 years in, it would only follow: the new CAP system looks like a major oversight already and it's hard to believe no one at 2K thought, "Hey, people are gonna hate this, maybe we shouldn't scale things back so much."

We're close to release, so we'll see what it looks like.

[Barncore]

Re: New CAP system

Gonna be one of the first things I test. Davez did say in the MyGM/MyLeague thread that they were doing 80 year soaks ...



I can't imagine they didn't look at the auto-generated draft classes and make sure they weren't filled with clones, but I have no idea what they were actually looking at -- whether it was just straight data/variables or more visual like (basically running a MyLeague sim like we would).

Combined with this paragraph in the MyLeague/GM blog itself:

I suspect the looks of draft classes can also be altered, on some level, on the backend with that generation template.

But it's just speculation. If we end up with clones 5 years in, it would only follow: the new CAP system looks like a major oversight already and it's hard to believe no one at 2K thought, "Hey, people are gonna hate this, maybe we shouldn't scale things back so much."

We're close to release, so we'll see what it looks like.

They said the "we did 80 year soaks" thing last year too but MyLeague still had some pretty weird oversights, like the "pass to open man" tendency thing where generated players weren't getting high assist numbers a few years down the line. Centers and PFs start averaging 0.3apg sorta numbers across the board, and only PG's get high numbers. If you're testing ML as extensively as they said then i have no idea how you miss that. So i sorta don't trust their claims of testing a lot

[wodi]

Re: New CAP system

They said the "we did 80 year soaks" thing last year too but MyLeague still had some pretty weird oversights, like the "pass to open man" tendency thing where generated players weren't getting high assist numbers a few years down the line. Centers and PFs start averaging 0.3apg sorta numbers across the board, and only PG's get high numbers. If you're testing ML as extensively as they said then i have no idea how you miss that. So i sorta don't trust their claims of testing a lot

Ha they don't test..... they need to hire simworld, who tests and makes adjustments that 2k ignores or misses.

[Boogee134]

Re: New CAP system

The deciding factor for me is going to be how diverse players look in MyLeague. If any franchise guys can run some simulations, see what the face diversity looks like, and then post their opinion here that would help me out a lot on my decision to purchase.

Couldn't be as bad as the last few years. In 2K17, 10 years in MyLeague, the league was populated by mutants and neanderthals that all looked alike. Sure, you sometimes had a face you've never seen, but after 4 years I had twins on my team. At least this year we can edit the players (hairstyles, facial hair), I guess it won't be that bad.

[trekfan]

Re: New CAP system

For everyone jabbing at the CAP system in the Prelude and in MyPlayer; it's more than likely that all of the CAP tools were stifled to give as a quicker smaller DL file for the Prelude.

It was mentioned by a dev in a blog (I don't recall the exact one) that there are MANY new hairstyles in this year & OBVIOUSLY there are only 5 or so in the the Prelude so there's a sign that our tools are limited until release... so let's all take a breather and relax as everything is going just as stated. Now if it's as stripped down in the actual release..........

EDIT: is any of this confirmed from someone WITH the game or on actual game footage (not prelude / early build video)?

Not at the moment. Everything we know is from Franchise Play, who got a look at it at the Prelude event and, according to his recent "Ask FP" youtube video, he's expecting to receive a review copy of the game either today or tomorrow (said video was put up over the weekend).

We're bound to get news from him or another early reviewer before Friday I'd bet. But overall the prognosis seems grim from all the information we can gather.

[Da InFaMoUs NY]

Re: New CAP system

For everyone jabbing at the CAP system in the Prelude and in MyPlayer; it's more than likely that all of the CAP tools were stifled to give as a quicker smaller DL file for the Prelude.

It was mentioned by a dev in a blog (I don't recall the exact one) that there are MANY new hairstyles in this year & OBVIOUSLY there are only 5 or so in the the Prelude so there's a sign that our tools are limited until release... so let's all take a breather and relax as everything is going just as stated. Now if it's as stripped down in the actual release..........

EDIT: is any of this confirmed from someone WITH the game or on actual game footage (not prelude / early build video)?

we already seen everything from the full game.

https://twitter.com/JuiceMan3x/status/907329358846730240

[trekfan]

Re: New CAP system

For the first time EVER I'm heir on the side of 2k.
NO WAY they make mention of all of the new hairstyles and then strip the mode to LESS than it was in year's past. Would they promote an item and it not possibly work or ever get fixed.. yes, promote a non-added feature...
yes. But mention on OS a "OS-heavy feature" and then strip it... doesn't sound likely to me.

Just had Youtube suggest this -- was uploaded yesterday.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/cQD4R3qIQDc" allowfullscreen="" height="315" frameborder="0" width="560"></iframe>

[Sitew33]

Re: New CAP system

Here's some dribble and shot animations fro the CAP system

https://youtu.be/wLcEYllNzvY

[Da InFaMoUs NY]

Re: New CAP system

Uh oh. That' not the full creator though. That'the feature edits not any morphing. You guys really think they took that all the way out and moved it to no more than 25 presets to mix and match? IS there a full game vid of that portion?

if youre talking about 2k generated draft class with morphed faces i think thats still a feature but user created stuff is using those horrible preset faces with an attached skin tone with no sculpting.

[Da InFaMoUs NY]

Re: New CAP system

"sculpting". That's what I meant. So we can sculpt from draft classes but not for the CAP from scratch stance?

you cant sculpt anything at all like we could in 2k17, everything is a preset like in the prelude.